Showgirls (1995)

Matt (00:00:21):

Hey darlin’, this is 1-Week Rental: A Movie Podcast, where we spend the week with a movie and take you along on the journey. We have spent the past seven days with Showgirls, Paul Verhoeven’s gosh darn masterpiece. My name’s Matt Stokes.

Laci (00:00:35):

And I’m Laci Roth.

Matt (00:00:37):

And we spent the last week with Showgirls. Huge, huge movie. Correction.

Laci (00:00:41):

I’ve spent my whole life with Showgirls. You go ahead.

Matt (00:00:43):

Huge, huge movie for Laci. And Paul Verhoeven, a huge, huge director for me, but foolishly this is the only … I’ve seen this movie twice now. You showed it to me six years ago and I liked it, but I didn’t. You

Laci (00:00:54):

Did. To your credit, you liked it.

Matt (00:00:56):

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laci (00:00:57):

You’re like, this movie’s doing something.

Matt (00:00:59):

It’s really good. This is really fun.

Laci (00:01:01):

Wild, but what … Yeah.

Matt (00:01:03):

This time I watched it. I’m like, this is everything. This is the story of everything. This is what life is like now. This

Laci (00:01:08):

Is a lament configuration.

Matt (00:01:10):

It is. It really is. No, and every news story that’s come out this week, all the discourse, I’m like, show girls, show goes, showgrows, show girls. We’ll get into all of that. But I think it’s my inner patriarchy that kept me from being like, “But that’s not like the cool robot movie, so it’s not cool as other movies.” Maybe that’s why I didn’t revisit it over and over again like I do with RoboCop and do it all recall.

Laci (00:01:32):

Interesting. The movie with all the naked women just didn’t feel like it was for you.

Matt (00:01:35):

Right, exactly. Yes. Naked women fit.

Laci (00:01:38):

No. Well, I mean, but you’re not alone.That’s the consensus is that this movie managed to put a bunch of beautiful naked women doing very, what would be thought of as sexy things together. And yet everyone agrees this movie is not sexy. These scenes are not sexy. That’s not what this is. In fact, they’re repulsive and there’s a reason he’s so good at making the things that are CDCD. We shouldn’t be enjoying this act when we know this woman is enjoying it either.

Matt (00:02:06):

So many of Paul Ver Hoven’s movies, even when they’re successful, people are like, “Oh, it’s a fun popcorn movie, RoboCop, that’s fun.” And then five years later, everybody’s like, “No, it’s like the key subversive sci-fi masterpiece.” No, he never gets received well in his time. And then it’s like time catches up to his movies. Everybody likes to say right now we live in a Pulver Hoven movie. We do live in a Paul Verhoeven movie. I guess I didn’t realize how much Showgirls is thematically linked to all of his other movies.

Laci (00:02:32):

Very much. Yeah. I didn’t either until you had me watch Basic Instinct. And then I watched that documentary that showed me a little bit of everything. And that’s the cool thing about him is that he sneaks these movies in. There’s no reason why millions and millions of dollars should be spent by an American production company on something that’s about to say, “America, you kind of fucking suck.”

Matt (00:02:53):

Especially when it’s a goddamn foreigner coming in and telling us. But that’s his whole thing is- A

Laci (00:02:58):

Deutschman.

Matt (00:02:59):

He’s this Dutchman who came in and is like, “I can’t wait.” He’s know me. He’s like, “I’m going to go to Hollywood, Tinseltown, baby, a dream factory.” And the system-

Laci (00:03:06):

And at every turn, he’s

Matt (00:03:08):

Like that. Oh God, I left Nazi Germany and now I arrived in Nazi Germany again.

Laci (00:03:13):

Well, first, God, so there’s so much.

Matt (00:03:16):

There’s so much. But

Laci (00:03:18):

I mean, she hits the jackpot right away with the first pull of the lever. And it’s like, that’s on purpose, baby. Yeah. That’s called love bombing.

Matt (00:03:25):

And

Laci (00:03:26):

Then that real nice woman walks up. Look at you. Do you want silver dollars instead of quarters? And she says yes. And the next scene is her just

Matt (00:03:33):

Like- Easier to spend. Yep.

Laci (00:03:35):

It’s four times the amount, right? And the next, the cut and she’s just like, “Fuck, fuck.” She’s lost all her money. And then she realized she’s been standing in that machine for long enough for it to not make sense that that man who gave her a ride into town should have been back by now. And that’s how she realizes he stole her suitcase. Everything she owned and she owned a suitcase worth of shit. That’s it, but they still want that. The men still want even that. What’s he going to do? Smell all your underwear, Naomi?

Matt (00:04:01):

After I watched this movie last night, I watched about half of casino, only meaning to watch 10 minutes of it.

Laci (00:04:06):

Why?

Matt (00:04:06):

Because it also came out in 1995. Martin Scorsese’s casino, also a movie about how Las Vegas and casinos, that’s a microcosm of America. It’s

Laci (00:04:15):

Capitalism on steroids because it’s just very fast. Is that

Matt (00:04:18):

A though? Yeah, that one is like, this is how we take your money and then show girls is like from the perspective of the person whose money gets taken. Right. And there’s this quote that I love from Robert De Niro that I’ll get to about everybody comes in and you don’t realize all of this is designed to separate you from your money. And what you just said is just the perfect thing like, “Ooh, I won on my first pull.”

Laci (00:04:38):

Right, right. And then a nice lady with a thing it drinks seems so helpful and so proud of you.

Matt (00:04:46):

But this movie’s reputation got rescued first as camp and sort of the so bad it’s good. And I feel like that’s kind of how I experienced it. And I thought her performance is so bizarre. I love, there’s nothing like this performance. And now I watch it and I see an actress who is in total control and is giving like one of the most remarkable performances I’ve ever seen for somebody who came from TV to combine physicality and this very specific, just insane powder keg energy.

Laci (00:05:16):

She danced for 16 hours a day, seven days a week for four and a half months with nobody double.This just sucks. Elizabeth Berkeley, in fact, is the perfect representation of what this movie does in real life. People don’t get it. People think it’s disposable. People think they know what you are because you’re naked while you’re doing what you’re doing. And so they assume a whole bunch of other things about everything else they just saw and say that, “Oh, this was bad.” Well, it’s like, take a step back. Was this bad? Are you still thinking about it? Was that shot amazing? There’s art all over the place. Also, God forbid anyone think about the director maybe having asked Elizabeth Berkeley to … He’s spending millions of dollars on an NC17 movie. Do you think he might have had the shot he wanted?

Matt (00:06:05):

And he would give quotes about how I told her to perform that way. This is not her fault. But yeah, it’s like a taste that the body rejects when it sees. But now the universe has caught up to, I feel like we are Noami, Nomi is me. Life is Nome.

Laci (00:06:24):

Let me just say from personal experience, I think it was a big deal that I watched this movie at home with a friend, with a friend that is a girl. If I had experienced this movie … Well, I was 10, number one. So I needed several more watches. I knew I was captivated, but I did not know why. And I think that’s changed over time as it does. But if I’d gone on a date and watched this movie with a boyfriend, I would’ve been jealous of this movie. This movie would’ve made me feel fucked up. And so I would’ve felt in competition with Elizabeth Berkley, which is weird and stupid. She’s the one being exploited her whole life. Her fucking story is awful, this Pollyanna, who she really is. And at a moment when someone finally finds out who she actually is and what she went through, she starts getting hit and beaten by a file folder.

(00:07:15):

But because there’s boobs, because there’s gyrating and crazy sex and orgasms and the mention of Cum, all the things. I’m in a theater with other women that I don’t know and with guys that I do know, and all of a sudden now I’m mad at Elizabeth Berkeley for this. And it’s such a weird thing. You need to experience this movie without judgment, without even knowing what it is maybe, and just watch it by yourself and process how it makes you feel without worrying about what other people are seeing and thinking, because it can be embarrassing if you’re watching it with people.

Matt (00:07:46):

And if Laci made it sound a little too much like homework, this movie is a blast. It’s so much fun. No, no, it’s fine. And it’s really funny. And you might get a little horny while you watch it.

Laci (00:07:56):

What

Matt (00:07:56):

Part made you a little horny? I don’t know when she’s doing the dance on Kyle McLaughlin and the strip club. Is

Laci (00:08:00):

It because of Kyla Laughlin? It’s

Matt (00:08:01):

Because of Kyle McLaughlin. And I just love the cherry pie and the coffee that he loves so much in Twin Peaks. Sure got good coffee here in Twin Peaks. But this is just a movie that I watch and I see a director and an actress who are in total control and are executing exactly what they are going for. And when people see it, it makes them too uncomfortable to like … It doesn’t go downright.

Laci (00:08:22):

Well, and this, be aware that every actor in this movie at every scene was under the impression that this was a very straightforward drama. They were doing everything to dialed up to 11 because they’re in a drama. It’s not till it’s all put together that people are finding it funny because things are uncomfortable or because her acting is so hyped. It doesn’t even seem like a person like that could exist. She’d pass out after six hours of being awake. She’s so much. She responds so … She’s so off putting yet everyone that meets her puts her at the center of their life. She becomes the thing that she’s captivating.

Matt (00:09:07):

I want to advance a reading of the movie later on about how I think she is the perfect dramatization of what it is like to be online right now. If there’s that thought experiment, like imagine everything somebody posts, imagine a person being in real life right in front of you saying the things.

Laci (00:09:25):

I am all caps right now.

Matt (00:09:26):

And that’s what it is. Yes, she is all caps all the time.

(00:09:30):

Exactly. So every episode has two components. We have the history section, which is in full video. If you’re listening on the podcast feed, subscribe on YouTube so you can watch that. Plus get plenty of bonus content. I have this Paul Verhoeven video essay I did last summer. Got plenty of other good stuff. If you are watching on YouTube and you want to hear the movie discussion, look at the link in the description and subscribe. And so we’re going to get to the history segment. We’re going to talk about Paul Verhoeven and Joe Esterhouse, the screenwriter. Laci’s going to tell us about Elizabeth Berkeley and her career and the fall and rise of the legacy of show girls. Talk a little bit about NC17 rating. Ooh, going up on the history. Why

Laci (00:10:12):

Are they not 18?

Matt (00:10:13):

They did-

Laci (00:10:14):

No, get to a way when we get to it. You’re about to quote Roger Ebert, and I just do want to point out that he was one of only two known critics that actually said something positive about Elizabeth Berkeley in their initial reviews.

Matt (00:10:52):

I was surprised. I read his whole review. And I also, he also didn’t like Starship Troopers. He didn’t like this movie. Guys, film criticism, not to anchor this in the moment. There’s a lot of discourse right now about film critics and how movie studios are like, “We don’t even need film critics anymore. We’ll just invite influencers to the premiers.”

Laci (00:11:10):

They’re telling you what you just wanted. You’re giving them free shit. Oh, everyone likes their dick sucked. Everyone likes their dick sucked. You’re creating an echo chamber and like-

Matt (00:11:19):

Just unpaid marketers. Yeah. But here-

Laci (00:11:22):

Yeah, but Yesmen, Unpaid Yesman. I mean, we’ve only been asked to review a couple of movies that we’ve actually said yes to maybe even just one.

Matt (00:11:29):

Just one.

Laci (00:11:29):

And I felt pressured to put the positive spin on it. Even though it was a decent movie, that’s what I wanted to highlight. That’s human nature. You got to be comfortable both being the bad guy, a taste maker, a little stuck up, up your own ass to be a movie critic.

Matt (00:11:44):

Your continued access depends on it. Plus, we know this. We’re told we’re too negative. I think more people would like us if we were just cheerleading movies all the time.

Laci (00:11:53):

So boring.

Matt (00:11:53):

I know.

Laci (00:11:54):

And it’s alienating because there’s got to be other people who are like, “Yes, finally someone.”

Matt (00:11:59):

I do love film critics. I grew up reading Roger Ebert, but now we’re going to have some fun roasting all the critics who got all of this wrong. We’re going to read from Roger Ebert. Now, this man loved movies, but the only thing he loved more than movies was boobs. Nevertheless. Oh, I loved boobs.

Laci (00:12:12):

Loved a boob.

Matt (00:12:13):

Quote, “A Sleaze Fest like- “

Laci (00:12:14):

Wait, but didn’t love RoboCup? Aren’t there three boats?

Matt (00:12:16):

He liked Probo Cop. That’s total recall.

Laci (00:12:19):

I totally did not recall that correctly and I’m

Matt (00:12:21):

Sorry. “A Sleeze Fest like Showgirls promises the inside dope on Las Vegas, stripping, hooking, and all that stuff.” Write that sentence again, Roger. “What Show Girls delivers, however, seems basically to be Joe Esterhaus’s masturbatory fantasies. The screenplay is the fevered product of a very limited imagination brought to a high gloss and a slick, expensive soap opera. Showgirls is the first big budget adults only movie in a few years. And to be sure, it contains so much nudity that the sexy parts are when the girls put on their clothes. It contains no true eroticism, however, and that’s why I think it reflects a grounding in sexual fantasy. Eroticism requires a mental connection between two people while masturbation requires only the other person’s image. Roger, do you think maybe that’s on purpose?

Laci (00:13:03):

Yeah, right. If he was doing something he intended to do and then did it.

Matt (00:13:06):

What seems to turn Esther house on are the images of women with knives. A switchblade appears in the first 60 seconds. Lesbianism, sex for cash, and violence.

Laci (00:13:18):

Since you’ve brought up the switchblade, I will touch on that. I too am always jarred by it, but this movie is what if men are real? So what we see is she is fleeing something. If she’s fleeing, it has to be bad. All she’s got is one suitcase. She’s a rebel in her leather jacket and she gets in the truck and she just knows if it’s a man picking her up, because why would it be a woman that he’s going to want sex? And she is sick of giving away sex. So yeah, that will nip that in the butt. It might seem crazy that she comes out of the gate with a fucking switchblade, but do you need her to come out of the gate with a smile when she’s known since she was a child that she will be sexually abused?

Matt (00:14:01):

Switchblade. The performance has within it. Every interaction, I’ve done it thousands of times. So of course I’m already at 11 when the guy picks me up and starts to seem a little skeevy. Immediately switchblade comes out.

Laci (00:14:13):

He was innocent at all. I even heard someone say he was just trying to be nice to you by saying,” Why don’t you sit a little closer? “That is very clearly let’s fuck for the … I’m giving you a ride. You will be sucking dick.

Matt (00:14:26):

I love that in a movie full of a sleazy man, that the Robert Davey character, Al, The Cheetah, he’s weirdly the most honorable man in the movie and the man with whom you would be the most safe, even though he says,” Yo will have to blow me, but you know the stake.

Laci (00:14:43):

“Yes, yes. He does not hide it. Now maybe you were hired and you didn’t totally know that, but he says it on the first day and he even tells you you’re going to swallow after you make your first really good night of money. And you can tell through the performances and what is said that Nomi never sucked his dick. She survived as an orphan on her own to this … I think she’s 19 in the movie, which is crazy too because I always thought of her as older, but a woman like that survives on her own by scaring the shit out of men. Her being five 10 helps and wearing heels helps even more, but he hints that … And even if you suck my dick, meaning you never did because you talked your way out of it and you were so mean to me, but then I saw you dance and you’re thrusting and made me hire you.

(00:15:34):

Anyway, I’ve spent too much time with this movie and I apologize. Nomi doesn’t blow guys unless she loves

Matt (00:15:40):

It. Everyone’s great in the movie and Robert Dave is playing this character. He resents that these high class guys like Kyle McLaughlin. They’re doing the same thing he does. They just sniff their own farts about it. And as we see, they’re of way less moral character than he is. A guy who again is sleazy and a sexual predator.

Laci (00:15:56):

Well, and think of the names of their two things, right? At least he calls it the cheetah. A cheetah, meaning like this cat has claws. It can protect itself. It’s a fierce woman and then goddess. Okay. So someone who I’m going to worship and protect and they’re so soft. What a soft role this is. You’re just meant to be on a pedestal. And then as soon as you’re old, you gain one pound, you get pushed down a flight of stairs, get the fuck out. We don’t even know who you are. You’re goddess though.

Matt (00:16:24):

Yeah, because at cheetahs, there is a role for people who are not young and sexy. Yes. I mean, there’s the only the one lady who’s just doing old-fashioned Hollywood razzle dazzle.

Laci (00:16:33):

She’s a Rodney Dangerfield of exotic dancers, but that he even, Al saw that this is useful that’s Nomi when she’s 70 years old. I think Nomi’s probably the … Elizabeth Berkeley is the age Henrietta is now, and she does not look like Henrietta. She still looks like Elizabeth Berkeley.

Matt (00:16:58):

The other thing, later in that review, Roger Ebert, he is mostly focused on Joe Esterhouse, the screenwriter. And it’s just interesting. Roger Ebert was an autour theorist. He believed in directors as the primary author of movies. But he has one mention of Verhoeven later in the review where he’s like, yeah, he’s a solid craftsman, which is like, that is so dismissive of who he is and so not what we think of him as now, as this just major director with such a specific voice.

Laci (00:17:26):

Do you get a sense that it’s because he wanted to keep Verhoeven kind of safe from his slightly critical … Let me put this on the writer because I also felt weird about basic instinct and this now has taken it to a degree where I can give it some of the criticism I wanted.

Matt (00:17:44):

No, I think Ebert actually was not part of the movement of people who took Verhoeven seriously. And I think part of that is because for as many virtues as Ebert had, he did not take genre movies seriously. So RoboCop would’ve been like, “Yeah, this is a fun popcorn movie.” But

Laci (00:17:57):

Then what about basic incident?

Matt (00:17:59):

I don’t remember what fellow basic instinct. But that’s like a thriller for adults. That’s something you can praise. It’s

Laci (00:18:04):

Pelican brief without his briefs on.

Matt (00:18:07):

Right. All right. Let’s talk Paul Verhoeven. The two primary authors of the movie, Paul Verhoeven and the screenwriter, Joe Esterhouse. But I mean, Paul Verhoeven, my man, one of my favorite, if not my favorite directors, it’s just what he does in movies is what I want done in movies is they work on the surface of being hella entertaining. The craftsmanship is top notch and then he’s crazy subversive of smuggling in all his left-wing anti-capitalist ideas. So Paul Verhoeven, born in Amsterdam in 1938. He’s a Dutchman. 1940, Germany invades and occupies the Netherlands. So his early childhood is spent within the Nazi occupation. And then, and I think this is big for him afterwards, Naziism is just still around. It’s in the air. And he has a movie called Black Book from 2006. I wish I could have rewatched it. It’s been a while, but I think it’s important for him that when you think of history, you have this caricature of the Nazi as the ultimate evil.

(00:19:11):

And when you talk about that, that sort of dismisses the idea that it can continue to live on, that a Nazi can be your neighbor or your mom or you.

Laci (00:19:21):

The everyday unconscious bias even toward just, I mean, as slavery here, we think of a racist person as wearing a pointy hood and it’s like that, no, we all have got a little pointy hood in our DNA.

Matt (00:19:37):

Yes. And- We’ve

Laci (00:19:38):

Soaked in it for

Matt (00:19:39):

So long. And under the right circumstances, any of us could easily turn into any kind of evil person from history. So he is obsessed and terrified of the specter of fascism, and he sees it everywhere, but he said that he grew up, born in Amsterdam, moved to the Hague, very near a German military base that was constantly getting bombed by the allies. And he said when he was a little kid, he thought it was exciting and cool. Look at each bombs going off. Oh, so cool. But it gave him the sort of the lifelong fascination with violence, scared of it, but also titilated by it. Okay. Starts directing movies in Holland in the 1970s. His breakout was Turkish Delight in 1973 starring Rutger Hauer. He made a lot of movies with Rutger Hower. Movies like Soldier of Orange, Speakers The Fourth Man, were all hits in Europe.

(00:20:29):

They were acclaimed in America, so then he moved on over to Hollywood and made his first English language movie in 1985 called Flesh and Blood, and immediately faced studio interference, pushed around in the movie, not taken away from him, but he’s told what to make this movie and it totally doesn’t align with his vision. And he vows never to compromise on a movie again. This movie was a Box Office bomb, but he gets right to work on his next movie, RoboCop, which turns out to be a huge hit and the platonic ideal of a Verhoeven movie, crowd pleasing, action blockbuster that’s also extremely funny and very, very violent and very, very subversive, but it’s the kind of movie that can appeal to the dumbest person in the crowd and the smartest person in the crowd. And you can easily miss all this. Not in RoboCop.

(00:21:17):

It’s very hard to miss the social commentary in RoboCop.

Laci (00:21:21):

I don’t know. Dumb people are like, “Well, there needs to be a good guy and a bad guy.” And there’s a blue team and a red team. And sometimes I didn’t grow up with neither of them, so you just got to tell me who to root for. And then I’m like, “Go red, go blue.” Whichever one you tell me. So as a dumb person, as long as there’s a clear good guy, clear bad guy. Yeah, good guy.

Matt (00:21:40):

There’s just things like there’s news broadcasts that are sprinkled throughout the movie that get increasingly insane. After the success of RoboCop, Arnold Schwarzenegger hires him to direct total recall. An adaptation of a Philip K. Dick short story. We praised Arnold Schwarzenegger in the past for being willing to hire directors. I mean, in his capacity as the producer of the movie and the big star, he can bring on whoever he wants and he chooses Paul Verhoeven. And then lets Paul Verhoeven direct him how he wants however he wants. And this is a huge movie that again doesn’t compromise on the violence or the satire or the social commentary. And so for Hovin’s now like a bonafide A- list director. But again, in that EBIT review, he’s like, yeah, he’s a solid craftsman. Basic instinct is the biggest hit of his career, makes $353 million worldwide. This is like a Star Wars level hit for an erotic murder mystery.

Laci (00:22:33):

Yeah. What was it made for?

Matt (00:22:35):

Like $50 million, something like that. But yeah, it plays like an Avengers movie. We used to be a real country where movies like this would be huge. This is the movie where he meets up with Joe Estherhouse and you had never seen Basic Instinct until this week.

Laci (00:22:50):

It was not. I don’t know what I thought it was that it was not that. I did end up giving it a four on Letterboxd though because there’s so much there. Why is it making me feel like this?

Matt (00:23:04):

You were

Laci (00:23:04):

Reacting so big to things. Why is everything so jarring? The twist in the … Just tell me what the twists are so I can process the other shit. I think that it’s a neonoir that it’s supposed to be, who done it this way and that way and the cops and I can’t figure it out. That distracted me from like the broader message and that needed to sink in more.

Matt (00:23:31):

Yeah, because it is probably, you assume this … Oh, this is like fatal attraction or something. Right.That’s

Laci (00:23:35):

What I thought. I thought it was just Roxy the whole time or whatever. Is that her name? The girlfriend.

Matt (00:23:42):

Yeah.

Laci (00:23:42):

Right. And that was distracting because I was like, wait, where the clues? It’s like, that’s not really this movie.

Matt (00:23:46):

Yeah, it’s not a-

Laci (00:23:47):

No, this movie is like, what if women like sex and talked about coming and don’t want to be saved and are kind of repulsed by the indication that they should be settling down. They’re independently wealthy. What if women were independently wealthy and didn’t need a man for security and to settle down? What would that be like? Oh, a woman of leisure that fucks, that does whatever she wants, that goes to clubs, that has girlfriends, that does drugs, that can do all kinds of things because she’s not being oppressed by whatever the husband says goes and he’s making all the money. That’s what this movie is. If you think of it as a woman free from needing the say so of any other person, including men, that’s why she surrounds herself with women, right? Those are her friends that she would defend to the death anyone who tried to compromise that.

(00:24:43):

Don’t get in my life and make me need to take your opinion seriously.

Matt (00:24:48):

Joe Esterhouse was in the mid 1990s, a superstar screenwriter in the era of the superstar screenwriter. It was like this brief woman in time. If you watch movies that sort of spoof the movie industry at the time, like Robert Altman’s the player, this is kind of … You’ll get people giving their pitches because people were making millions of dollars on their pitches like, “Oh, this is die hard in the desert or whatever.” And he’s sort of the face of it, the screenwriter as IP, getting record paydays for his scripts. He made first big movie was Flash Dance in 1983.

Laci (00:25:22):

Which is also about a really talented art, inspired, empowered stripper. Of dancing. Oh, it’s good. I mean, she is a dancer that does get naked, that it does suggestive dances, but she’s so fucking creative and she’s a welder by day. And she’s just totally secure in her sexuality and the fact that she likes sex.

Matt (00:25:49):

That was the only other thing I knew about her is like, well, she has a job. She’s like a laborer.

Laci (00:25:54):

The dancing’s also a job. She gets paid for that too.

Matt (00:25:56):

Oh, she does? Okay. Okay, that’d be interesting. Maybe we’ll cover it one day. It

Laci (00:26:02):

Is

Matt (00:26:02):

Beloved. We see the through lines. Jagged Edge in 1985, big shots in 1987. Well,

Laci (00:26:08):

Pauses. Is that Rupert Everett?

Matt (00:26:10):

No.

Laci (00:26:11):

Who is that man?

Matt (00:26:12):

That’s Jeff Bridges. In Jagged Edge?

Laci (00:26:14):

Yeah. Okay, it does matter.

Matt (00:26:16):

It’s Jeff Bridges and Glenn Close.

Laci (00:26:18):

I mean, Glen Close I got, but I was like, an openly gay man plays a love interest that is in a straight couple.

Matt (00:26:25):

No, he wasn’t allowed to do that. Poor Rupert. Poor Rupert. Yeah. Basic Instinct gets a $3 million pay a day for that. $2 million for show girls and he gets a couple more- Doesn’t

Laci (00:26:36):

Feel like enough.

Matt (00:26:37):

I know. At the time it was. Jade and one night Stan, he makes a lot of money for these movies. These movies are kind of forgotten and then it’s kind of over for him. So he works with Verhoeven on basic instinct, but they do not have a good working relationship and Verhoeven wants to make all of these changes to the script and it causes Esther House to leave the movie. And Verhoeven keeps rewriting it and then brings on a new screenwriter and then eventually decides he just likes the original script by Esther House and goes back to it.

Laci (00:27:06):

Well, I do know that they severed their ties after Show Girls because just the way it was received initially was just hard. It didn’t give them a ton of confidence. Let’s keep going. People get this.

Matt (00:27:17):

And Verhoeven was very unhappy with the fact that he made his name in Hollywood making sci-fi spectacle and tried doing just regular people or just … If a movie without robots and laser guns and stuff, one of them flops in Hollywood says, “You’re only allowed to make genre movies now.” So he makes Starship Troopers and Hollowman after that.

Laci (00:27:41):

No second chances.

Matt (00:27:43):

Vorhoven going to read here. He told Rolling Stone in 2015. And as always, all of our sources, there are links in the description. We cite all of our sources. We’re very careful about that here on one week rental. Quote, Joe Estherhouse and I first began talking about showgirls around 1991 or 1992. We’d had some problems on basic instinct with the script and all that and had a falling out. But then because of basic instinct’s success, each changed his mind. So after a year of animosity, we had a pleasant lunch at the Ivy in Los Angeles and he presented me with a couple of ideas for another film to work on together, one of which was show girls. The idea was to make a film that was situated in the world of Vegas where the protagonist would be a girl who basically just starts with lap dancing and then comes into the big casino shows.

(00:28:23):

That was the original idea.

Laci (00:28:26):

Just to find out that they’re exactly the fucking same.That’s another part of the movie that’s, and I guess we’ll get to it when we’re talking about it scene by scene, but people pick on the fact that Nomi has these reactions to being asked to show her body at all these different stages in the movie. And you’re like, “Naomi, we’ve seen you naked for an hour and a half. Why are you even freaking out? ” It’s like, because at every relationship, when she thinks something’s going to change, when she thinks her life is going to change, it’s show me your boobs. And you’re allowed to be protective of your body even if you haven’t had the luxury of protecting it before.

Matt (00:29:03):

When that happens, when the show directors, all right, now show me your tits. And you can see on Berkeley’s face that she has taken aback by this, that is all deliberate. You’re supposed to be like-

Laci (00:29:13):

All three of the girls have that face.

Matt (00:29:16):

My instant reaction is like, “Oh, come on. I’ve seen your Boobers already, baby.” But then yeah- It’s

Laci (00:29:22):

Like, yeah, but

Matt (00:29:22):

Now- Why shouldn’t she feel

Laci (00:29:23):

That?

Matt (00:29:23):

Now

Laci (00:29:24):

I’m here because I’m a professional dancer with skills that your average exotic dancer does not have. I’ve been asked to come here based on that talent and it’s, you’re so casual, show me your tits.

Matt (00:29:36):

Now I have a question. Do these shows, these booby shows exist?

Laci (00:29:40):

Yeah, these are show girls. This is really how show girls’ shows are.

Matt (00:29:44):

They have their tits out?

Laci (00:29:45):

Full frontal sometimes.

Matt (00:29:47):

Really? Can we go to one?

Laci (00:29:49):

No.

Matt (00:29:50):

Why not?

Laci (00:29:50):

Because you want to.

Matt (00:29:52):

Go

Laci (00:29:53):

By yourself. You’re being weird about it.

Matt (00:29:57):

I want you to go with me.

Laci (00:29:58):

I want to find someone who’s a giant Big show we go to

Matt (00:30:00):

Afterwards. It would be fun too.

Laci (00:30:02):

Okay.

Matt (00:30:02):

No. Well, why can’t they be the same show? Git show show that does both.

Laci (00:30:06):

I don’t know that they have that kind of package. Two different audiences.

Matt (00:30:10):

But I guess just like-

Laci (00:30:11):

I think that there are classic show girl shows where it’s even a notch above this, but the idea is that a show like Goddess at this hotel and this show, they are each other. You are this second tier, third tier hotel and you’re acting as though you’re just as good as the Palace? Whatever. To pull audiences into your show, you need to have tits and much more

Matt (00:30:43):

Seduction. Okay, gotcha.

Laci (00:30:45):

Right. Where if you’re like the Riviera or whatever, and you’ve already have this Regal reputation because of The Rat Pack or whatever, the Flock Elvis, I don’t know, you’ve got your classic show girls there. And I don’t know if they’re older or just girls who refuse to, that don’t need to show Titi anymore. I don’t know how the hard … I would like to know. I wish there were one more rung in this movie to find out.

Matt (00:31:08):

Yeah. But the movie’s not concerned with that. It’s not going into like, these shows exist so that people can go in here and the hotel can keep them inside longer so that they’ll ultimately just go gamble more.

Laci (00:31:19):

Well yeah, it’s like a cruise. It’s in a cruise. You just need an outside break, a gamble break, an ice cream break. You just need breaks to go back and do whatever the fuck you were going to do, like spending beyond your alcohol package. And not speaking from experience.

Matt (00:31:34):

So this is like a very old fashioned showbiz story in its narrative arc of your sort of ingenue arrives with big dreams. And they have the idea. I remember, I couldn’t find any quotes to support this, but I remember somebody saying they envisioned it as an actual musical, but I didn’t find anything to support them.

Laci (00:31:54):

He calls it a musical, the director.

Matt (00:31:56):

But that literally it would be a musical. With musical, they would sing songs.

Laci (00:32:01):

Oh, okay. Okay. But he still does consider it a musical. And it even won worse song. And I’m like, “What song? What song? What song won No Brazzie for worst song? There’s no lyrics in anything.” Oh, I’ll bet it’s Andrew Carver’s song. It’s playing throughout the whole movie. This one song they wrote for this character to have an actual, to make him seem like, I don’t know, Michael Bolton. I don’t know what the fuck he’s supposed to be. Guy from Creed.

Matt (00:32:29):

I love when Laci knows a movie inside and out that I don’t. Okay.

Laci (00:32:35):

When cars are in the background, you can hear coming out of theirs. When Molly pulls up to pick up Nomi, she’s playing it again. It comes on the radio and their trailer, different … Yeah.

Matt (00:32:46):

Verhoban and Esther House go to Vegas and do a lot of research. They interview people who work in these dance shows, both the dancers and the choreographers and the support staff and everything. And a lot of what they see makes it into the movie and they see the dynamics of the dancers and see this is like hyper competitive cutthroat and that sort of changes what their conception of the story. And they decide this is going to follow more a different showbiz story all about Eve, the 1950 movie starring Betty Davis about a stage star who gets you serped by her understudy.

Laci (00:33:17):

It’s so interesting because the critique of it that this is like some kind of maspitory fantasy of the writer. And it’s like, no, you’re believing the marketing of Las Vegas and your experience as a white man in Las Vegas or as a family in Las Vegas or whatever. But if you’re actually trying to go there to live, whether you’re like a server at a restaurant or a dancer, this is the reality of it. This isn’t like, oh, they’re just giving opportunities to get naked. It’s like, no, the only opportunity people like Nomi have are if they get naked.

Matt (00:33:53):

And even if you get naked and you just entered another arena where you have to fight for your fucking life and one misstep, you’re fucked.

Laci (00:34:01):

Also, you’re going to get poached and you’re going to get taken advantage of by people who know more constantly. And who knows how long it’s going to take you to be the one that knows all of it. So you get recommended to do the boat show. Your best friend tells you people didn’t like that. I wouldn’t do it, but it’s $1,000. Well, no, you’re going to see $1,000 and you go to the boat show, you do your thing and lo and behold, you’re all supposed to fuck some business, some high roller. And it’s like all of it. From the time she gets in the truck to the time she gets in the truck at the end, there are sexual favorite expectations of Nomi at every fucking turn.

Matt (00:34:36):

Verhoeven said in the 2015 Rolling Stone, quote, “I have said this in several interviews, but in retrospect, I think it would have been much better to have done something similar to basic instinct, more or less. A murder mystery in Vegas.” And it would have been easier. And when he’s saying better, he means like he’s talking about the way that audiences in America reacted. So he’s saying like, “I think it would have been more palatable if he had done something like this. ” And it would have been easier for audiences to go to a movie where there was abundant nudity, which was probably difficult in general for the American public. In basic instinct, there are very, very long sex scenes which aren’t there in showgirls because basic instinct was a thriller. The idea that Sharon Stone could kill him during sex was always an element of protection.

(00:35:14):

So we could show sex annuity much longer than normal because there was another element there, the element of threat, end quote, which is the trick of basic instinct is like, “Oh God, oh, she’s going to kill him. Everything that she’s doing looks like she’s going to kill him.”

Laci (00:35:29):

And it blew me away that there’s both a club scene that is near identical to the club scene. The iconic let me watch this crazy flailing giraffe dance moment for Nomi, but then there’s just as weird of a club scene in basic instinct and almost identical hair. And what I did not expect was floppy fish sex in both floppy fish sex in both. He did not invent it here. I had

Matt (00:35:55):

No

Laci (00:35:55):

Idea

Matt (00:35:57):

Flailing

Laci (00:35:57):

Around. I’ve been doing cowgirl style all wrong, Matt. I don’t ever go … I

Matt (00:36:04):

Keep counting do the dolphin. She just plugs my hole and I’m like, “Not like that. ” Not

Laci (00:36:09):

That. Not breathe underwater.

Matt (00:36:11):

And when we eventually cover Robocop, you’ll see like violence is kind of the same way. The way he shows violence is not in a realistic way, but in a way that just like signals to your brain, that is very gory and violent. It’s kind of hard to explain. It’s almost like a parody of itself. Sex in this movie and basic instinct is like an exaggerated parody of sex and violence is a parody of violence. But it’s like

Laci (00:36:34):

How a horror movie has to use ghosts or jump scares to make you scared of an alcoholic father. A movie trying to show you what it’s like to be a vulnerable person in a place like Las Vegas has to show you every kind of creep, has to give you every kind of bad thing that could happen. And then to show the violence of violence, like we’re so desensitized to seeing someone shot on a movie that we need to see someone shot and eight times and blood and guts spew everywhere.

Matt (00:37:05):

You need the squid

Laci (00:37:06):

Act to just

Matt (00:37:06):

Fucking

Laci (00:37:07):

… Feel this violence, feel this sexual assault and realize you’d only walked away feeling it because you see it all the time.

Matt (00:37:16):

The dolphin sex, which is the thing that you warned me about.

Laci (00:37:19):

Flawy fish sex.That’s not a dolphin.

Matt (00:37:21):

You called it dolphin sex.

Laci (00:37:22):

No, I didn’t. There’s a dolphin in the scene, Matt. There’s a dolphin fountain.

Matt (00:37:26):

Well, then you could see why I mushed those three things together.

Laci (00:37:28):

And that is why I’m lovingly correcting

Matt (00:37:29):

It

Laci (00:37:30):

That it is floppy fish sex.

Matt (00:37:32):

All right. The floppy fish sex, which was the thing I remembered most for the movie. Yeah, exaggerated, funny spoof of what sex is like, but also points to the crushing dehumanization of Nomi who’s not even allowed to just do sex for fun. She has to do it in this crazy performative way.

Laci (00:37:51):

Right. God forbid she just lay down on a Monday.

Matt (00:37:53):

We have to get into the pool and pour champagne over each other, which yeah, all of that looks fun, but yeah, does she ever get to have just normal sex?

Laci (00:38:00):

Right. I saw you do that pole thing. Can you just like hump me real hard like a pole

Matt (00:38:05):

Now?

Laci (00:38:05):

How about you do some work? How about go down on me maybe?

Matt (00:38:12):

Do you think

Laci (00:38:12):

Anyone’s ever gone down on her? I bet not.

Matt (00:38:15):

I bet not. No me, maybe a woman. No, Verhoeven, not Nomi. Paul Verhoeven was startled to find Americans are very prude and they have this bizarre relationship with sex where it’s a country of crazy sex freaks, but also they’re very repressed about it and they don’t want to talk about it and they don’t want to see it on screen. Well, see it on screen if you can incorporate that maybe somebody’s going to get murdered, but otherwise- Don’t be sex.

Laci (00:38:41):

Okay.

Matt (00:38:43):

Yes. And maybe horror movies are only popular because we feel okay if we can see a lady’s tits if she’s going to get murdered by Michael Myers. So okay, quote, “But the sexual elements of showgirls are extremely limited. It’s more about the nudity. If you make a story about a lap dancer who becomes a showgirl, I think nudity is obligatory. It followed the storyline, but I wouldn’t call that sexual. I would say showgirls is more anti-erotic than erotic.

Laci (00:39:07):

It absolutely is. And they go out of your way to show the sweat. After Naomi gets off a stage at the cheetah and after dancing in the show, she is pouring with sweat. This woman just did labor and that’s how she thinks of it. She’s perfectionist who is all … It’s not that she didn’t take dance classes because she was all natural talent. She was poor, an orphan and on the street and she learned how to dance like that. Put some respect on Nomi alone. And

Matt (00:39:38):

Kyle McLaughlin alludes to like, where do you think she got those moves? Meaning like … Do

Laci (00:39:43):

Such a stupid thing to say because men, it makes them uncomfortable. They want to enjoy the results of the life that Nomi lived, but don’t want to hear about the life that she lived. Don’t want to think about her as a solicitor. What a piece of trash that she’d do that. Even though right now we only think her value is because of that, is because she’s going to do that again, but we’re repulsed that she ever did it before.

Matt (00:40:05):

Right.

Laci (00:40:06):

It’s

Matt (00:40:06):

Such a … There’s sort of this- Be a

Laci (00:40:08):

Virgin, Nomi.

Matt (00:40:09):

It’s like the body is, its white blood cells are attacking her being like, no, you’re not allowed to … You’re trying to rise above your station. You were a literal sex worker. Here you’re going to do a different version of sex work, but we’re going to spit you out because we don’t like the fact that you used to be that.

Laci (00:40:25):

You’re selling our good name. We had Crystal Connors. She was fine. She only ate dog food sometimes. Now you ate dog food and we’re an orphan sick. An orphan whose dad killed her mom and killed himself. A tragic orphan at the Riviera … No, I forget the name of the-

Matt (00:40:44):

The Stardust.

Laci (00:40:44):

The Stardust. Thank you.

Matt (00:40:46):

So yeah, it’s definitely anti-erotic, but I think that the movie is so fixated on Artifice and that’s what Las Vegas is. It’s oh I can go see the fake Statue of Liberty and the fake Eiffel Tower.

Laci (00:40:59):

The fake Cher because she’s so done by the time she gets to Vegas to perform Cher. Or artists,

Matt (00:41:06):

Britney

Laci (00:41:07):

Spears. The washed up this.

Matt (00:41:10):

The

Laci (00:41:10):

Tired this.

Matt (00:41:11):

The fake Elvis, the impersonators. And there’s the scene where Nomi and Crystal Connors go have lunch and they go out and you kind of think at first they’re outside, but they’re just in the hotel atrium, which has a fake blue sky on the ceiling and fake Greek architecture. And it’s like they’re in a fake streetside cafe. Everything about the world that they live in- It’s a

Laci (00:41:33):

Very famous mall.

Matt (00:41:34):

… is fake. But you understand what I’m saying? Even the-

Laci (00:41:37):

It’s all about keeping indoors, just like you were saying before.

Matt (00:41:40):

Everything is artifice. Even all the Christmas tree imagery is like … The Christmas tree is itself a signifier of a sort of imagined pastoral past. We all gather around the hearth. In fact, it’s not even real Christmas trees. It’s like they paste up pictures of Christmas trees on the wall. What are you talking about? That the movies as its subject has artifice as its subject. I got that. And it’s in the set decoration everywhere you look for it. I

Laci (00:42:06):

Find the holiday reference stuff in the movie so interesting because … And it probably points to the edge of what you’re saying, which is that Las Vegas does everything it can to keep you inside. So it’s only like when Nomi steps out of the working world that she’s in, that there’s little hints of a holiday going. So she’s outside and you can hear somebody saying trick or treat or some kind of, “Oh, smell my feet. People are singing the trick or treats my feed song.” And then she bursts into the office where regular people get to work to say, “This man did this to me and then there’s Christmas shit everywhere.” And it’s like there’s no clocks, there’s no calendars. You just go in there, you keep your head down, you hope to get a paycheck and not fall down the stairs. And it’s like your life, your youth, it just passes you by.

(00:42:52):

Before you know it, it’s Christmas and she didn’t make it further than that, but there is no time when you’re in Vegas. And

Matt (00:43:01):

That’s a version of the myth they’re selling you. It’s a form of immortality. You exist outside of time now. God, it feels like

Laci (00:43:08):

The opposite. It feels like it feels like fucking innerstellar. You’re going to come out of the other side like you just did an eight year term in the fucking US presidency. No,

Matt (00:43:16):

But you never need to come out. You never need to leave.

Laci (00:43:18):

And yet she came out, didn’t she?

Matt (00:43:20):

So who would play Nomi though? Before I give it up to Laci, one more quote from Paul Ferhoven in that 2015 interview, “In terms of casting the movie, one of the main concerns next to acting was the dancing and nudity. Both of those elements being extreme, the actress would have to be able to dance. And she also had to be willing to show full frontal throughout the film. These elements, especially the nudity, are extremely difficult for American actresses to accept. And Elizabeth Berkeley was the only actress that’s combined all three. I had never seen Saved by the Bell, so that didn’t count too much for me. I chose her because she was the right choice. There was no competition. It was clear that after months of looking for somebody we had found Nomi Malone. It’s probably true that casting her in a part so different from how American audiences knew her affected the Box Office.

(00:44:02):

But I didn’t know that series and I had no idea what kind of character she played in it. ” It’s funny that he had no idea.

Laci (00:44:10):

You think you do a little research.

Matt (00:44:11):

And I have no idea. I’m saved by the bell complete. I’m the only member of our generation who never watched it.

Laci (00:44:18):

So it is only because Elizabeth Berkeley lost the lead role of Renie for Friday the 13th, part eight. Jason takes Manhattan. What? She could have been a genre girl that she auditioned for Saved by the Bell. And it was between her and Tiffany and Amber Theson as to who would get Kelly Kapowski, who is the cheerleader, a heartthrob, Zach Morris’s girlfriend, just your All Am Arakan Girl, not the brightest bulb either. They were both, who’s going to get this? And they ultimately chose Tiffany and Bertheeson, but we’re so impressed by Elizabeth Berkeley’s performance that they gave her another lead character, Jesse Spano, who is this feminist character who’s always calling AC Slater macho or something, a pig, doesn’t like his advances, but kind of does. And she dances a lot in the … She is a trained dancer from a very young age. And a trained singer, she’s always wanted to sing as well.

(00:45:17):

She gets to sing a little bit in Save By the Bell.

Matt (00:45:20):

I know Zach Morris is the lead.

Laci (00:45:24):

Do you need my magazine that my friend Mo from Monique’s movie Mandes gave me that is a behind the scenes? It’s saved by the Bell from 2001, purchased 2001. I can prove it. There’s a receipt in here.

Matt (00:45:35):

It looks like it’ll have all the answers I’m looking for. It’s

Laci (00:45:37):

Going to have all the … What do you need to know about Zack Morris? You tell me.

Matt (00:45:40):

Well, I know he’s the lead. Is there like a Kelly more of a lead than Jesse? Is that the dynamic? I say

Laci (00:45:47):

Lisa Turtle and Screech and Jesse Spano are all one rung below Kelly Kapowski, Zach Morris and AC Slater. Because AC Slater and Zach Morris are always trying to fight over … Zach Morris is number one. That’s it. Okay. So then you go down one AC Slater, Kelly Kapowski. Then you go down another one and then it’s the other three. So they pretend they’re all equal. They are not. Dustin Diamond is not treated equally on set or offset.

Matt (00:46:18):

But the only thing I knew from the show was Jesse Spano being so excited. That’s the only thing that I’d absorbed by cultural osmosis.

Laci (00:46:25):

You did not know about Lisa’s hurdles, Dance the Sprain?

Matt (00:46:28):

No.

Laci (00:46:29):

Okay. Well, yeah, no, right. Elizabeth Berkeley’s performance in Saved by the Bell, like the original season of it, it is definitely the thing that outlasted and lived the longest, and I think it would’ve rather she’d become a showgirl or not.

Matt (00:46:43):

So it’s like a thing where you watch it and you say, “This is a real actor and the others are like

Laci (00:46:48):

Not? ” No, they’re all cute. They’re all going to go on to do other things. They do. Mario Lopez has a great career. Dustin Diamond does not. Lisa Turtle God, I don’t know what happens to her, but Tiffany Amberthieson, Mark Paul Glosser and Elizabeth Berkeley do go on. Their heart lives on.

Matt (00:47:09):

Our podcast used to be called Load Bearing Beams, the idea being we take a movie we hadn’t seen in a long time and now we used to love it. Now we watch it as an adult and we put it to the test. Were we stupid? The first time I ever experienced this was when the idea that your childhood nostalgia will color your critical faculties was I watched an episode, the one episode of Saved by the Bell I’ve Everseen with my friend Patrick guest of this podcast and this lady who I was dating at the time. So we were in our dorm in college and they put on Saved by the Bell. They’re like, “You’ve never driven by Norma.” And they put it on and they’re both laughing and I’m just like, “What the fuck are we watching? This is terrible. This is not funny.” But they weren’t like laughing like it’s so bad.

(00:47:51):

It’s good. They’re like, “What are you talking about? It’s great. It’s so funny.”

Laci (00:47:54):

It’s comforting. The same musical little segues, the same sting when something big happens, the same ooh, and someone kisses. It’s just like the formula is so soothing. And then you get these random, I’d say Elizabeth Berkeley has this really dramatic moment that is unlike anything else in the show, but it’s not the only sitcom to have done that because in Fresh Prince of Bel Air, there is one episode where he meets his real dad and I mean, I guess Goose was just talking about it. Yeah, fuck

Matt (00:48:26):

Up you don’t want me, man.

Laci (00:48:27):

Well, he cries. And that just showed you like, okay, you are going on to do more things. Her career is so … It might as well just be, I did say by the bell that I did show girls and I was in First Wives Club. I know that she felt very alone after all the bad criticism came out that the director, yes, eventually says, “Hey, this is all on me. ” But it wasn’t like he jumped a defender. No actor in the movie jumped to defender and she shouldered all of it. The other actors were thought to have been doing some good acting where she wasn’t and …

Matt (00:49:05):

She’s on screen almost every second of the

Laci (00:49:08):

Movie. She carries them, right? Well, and she’s known for Saved by the Bell and that’s just not prestigious. That’s campy. That’s like so proper level act.

Matt (00:49:17):

No, but it is like no me trying to rise above her station. Who are you trying to fool? Save by the bell. Saturday morning act or trying to be in a real movie. Who do you think you are?

Laci (00:49:27):

Exactly. And she felt very alone in that no one came to her defense and she was so young when it happened that it just … She didn’t do anything for a while after that. And I mean, the things that she did do afterward are just not … That’s a lot of TV stuff, but she did some Broadway stuff too. So I didn’t find it terribly interesting, just that she’s okay now. And she got married to Ralph Lauren’s nephew. And she didn’t get in this hit after hit cycle, but she did end up in the same stream of these people. So she was adjacent enough to get to do some stuff and like some CIS stuff. Or she did Dancing with the Stars where she spoofed her I’m so excited thing and then showed her real dancing skills. I don’t think people realize, no, she’s a real dancer.

(00:50:14):

She didn’t learn to dance for this movie. You can get so distracted by the dancing that you don’t see this skill. And like she met her husband at a dance class in Hollywood. So this movie might’ve helped her have a more normal life than she would’ve otherwise if it had catapulted her. I think people think they want that and then …

Matt (00:50:37):

This is a level of immortality that she will have that … So I guess, I mean, just to tell the story of like the arc of show girls, which gets released with a big marketing push, this is the first NC17 movie that’s going wide. Ooh, everyone’s so titilated, and this is Paul Verhoeven’s big follow-up to Basic Instinct, which made Sharon Stone a superstar. What’s he going to do next? That made her a superstar. Is Elizabeth Berkeley going to be a new superstar? It does badly at the box office, makes $20 million, which is half of its budget. I mean, that’s not like a flop flop. Later goes on to be a huge success on home video, but the reviews are scathing. Roger Ebert’s review, which I read from. It’s not like he gave it two out of four stars and Ebert wasn’t cruel to … I mean, he didn’t cruel.

(00:51:25):

He didn’t single out Elizabeth Berkeley. Here’s a review from the LA Times from Kenneth Turn, “To the unaided eye, the pouty, hot, tempered Nome, Shirley played by Berkeley, comes off as an irritating, self-absorbed twerp.” So it is a double shock to discover that showgirls, expects us to identify with this infantile individual as a sensitive seeker after self-esteem and not be surprised when everyone else in the film takes an inexplicable interest in her wellbeing.

(00:51:56):

And yeah, obviously you’re allowed to criticize actors and actresses, but like you said, this was her first movie. She’s coming from this sitcom world. She’s in every second of the movie. She is naked and almost like kind of like Monica Lewinsky around the same time. Everybody licensed to pile on to this very, very young woman as a sexualized actor.

Laci (00:52:16):

1995 was not the best year for doing badly while naked as a woman.

Matt (00:52:22):

I mean, this is a special performance. This is an Oscar. I mean, Oscars aren’t good, but this is a legendary performance, I think, that is in total control of what she’s trying to do.

Laci (00:52:31):

Absolutely. And it lives on in so many special ways. The Peaches Christ, the drag star does a midnight mass show that features different kinds of ways to show show girls. Different drag queens act out different parts. Each night’s a little bit different. They focus on different parts of the movie, and then at the end, everyone who bought a large popcorn gets a free lap dance from one of the very unpurposely … These are very unpolished drag queens and kings that have their dick out or they’re women, but they have their dick out or they have mud on them or they have shit on … Anyway, it’s very interesting. So there’s Midnight Mass. There’s Show Girls the Musical, which is done by a woman that was raised Mormon and then just really related to the Nomi character, Felt Alone when she came to come out and she shows her boobs the whole time and it’s this very empowering thing.

(00:53:29):

It looks really funny. I would go see this. And then there’s books about it. I thought there was one more thing, but it’s a very important movie to the LGBT community, not because of the portrayal of lesbianism in the movie, but because of the way she defends Molly. I mean, different things, like going away, getting away from where you were born to find your chosen family and to be so protective of that chosen family that you throw away whatever it is you found here and you go bash back who bashed your family. And that’s just very queer coded.

Matt (00:54:10):

And it’s the … We’ll get into that when we discuss the movie, because it’s just like, yeah, it really moves me the more I think about it, the decision she makes at the end of the movie, which I’d totally forgotten how the movie ended. I had no idea. I remembered a lot of stuff really well, but I was like, “What happens at the end again?” I think she makes it. I think she’s a big star.

Laci (00:54:28):

Yeah. I mean, after seeing Basic Instinct, the two make sense together that it’s inconclusive. They’re fine for now. That’s the ending for both.

Matt (00:54:38):

But she’s the only person who does a real morally righteous thing and can only do it because of the specific life she has led. It’s like that’s the only actual path to being a good person. If you live a life- If you live a life of comfort, you’re basically going to be self-perpetuating defending the system like Kyle McLaughlin. I’m going to pose this as a nice guy, but I’m ultimately going to do it in the interest of- family.

Laci (00:55:04):

We’re all part of a team here.

Matt (00:55:06):

And so the queer community really reclaims the movie first, and then I think a combination of it being celebrated in all these subcultures, the Cult of Paul Verhoeven grows. I think teenage boys like watching all the titties and stuff, and the movie becomes a huge, huge success on home video. And then Elizabeth Berkeley eventually herself comes to really embrace it and appears at screenings, we’ll introduce it. There’s this great video of her introducing it at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery.

Laci (00:55:37):

That was the first time she’d gotten … That was the first time she got to do a screening in front of a crowd and to give her the actual accolades that she deserved. It was her only positive experience doing a screening of the movie, which just touched me.

Matt (00:55:54):

Yeah. And now she does an evening with Elizabeth Berkeley on the 30th anniversary last year. She

Laci (00:56:01):

Goes around speaking and I know she does the part of the dance every time.

Matt (00:56:04):

So the movie gets an NC17 rating and we could do a whole podcast about the MPAA and their rating system, but basically ratings only start in 1968. This is just a voluntary thing the movie industry is doing to avoid government regulation. In the beginning, there’s four ratings. There’s G, M, R, and X. And X rated movies, no children allowed. And when this starts in the late 60s, early 70s, X rated movies like Midnight Cowboy are big. And it’s like, this is the new Hollywood era when suddenly serious movies for adults become very fashionable and popular. Midnight Cowboy wins Best Picture. I remember when learning the trivia, it’s the first X-rated movie to win best picture. And when I read that as a teenager, I’m like, “But X means porn.” That’s weird.

Laci (00:56:54):

It’s triple

Matt (00:56:55):

1. Well, that is wrestling for you. It’s Triple H. Exactly.

Laci (00:57:02):

Poor boy was confused.

Matt (00:57:04):

But the X rating comes out and the porn industry, which is really taking off in the 70s, starts to embrace the X rating and then just works it into their own marketing materials. So X just comes to define porn. So the MPAA- Because

Laci (00:57:16):

X is a kiss and it’s a butthole.

Matt (00:57:19):

Both two great things. In 1990, much later than I thought the NPAA replaced the X with the NC17, initially allowed 17 year old people end up and then said, also 17 years old is not allowed. So it’s technically 18 and up.

Laci (00:57:36):

17 and under not

Matt (00:57:37):

Permitted.

Laci (00:57:38):

Man, I’d go there about 19 years old and be like, “Finally, go home.”

Matt (00:57:43):

But it’s this interesting thing where as a culture, we totally went backwards in terms of prudishness and being open about sexuality where you can have X-rated movies winning best picture in the early 70s to now an NC17 movie does not get a wide release. It’s the death now.

Laci (00:58:00):

Thanks, Ronald Reagan.

Matt (00:58:01):

But the whole project of this movie is like, “We’ll embrace the NC17. We’re going to get an NC17.” Basic instinct, he was able to cut it down to get an R rating, but no, NC17 will give it a big marketing push and they do and they release it wide and it doesn’t make-

Laci (00:58:16):

But it’s such a smart marketing thing to do just like with the ring or just like with screaming like someone dropped dead from fright of this movie and it’s like that kind of marketing can really fuck you up or it can be exactly what was supposed to … And he’s a genre guy, right? So it made sense to do it this way. I like the big swing.

Matt (00:58:36):

They

Laci (00:58:36):

Built it up.

Matt (00:58:39):

They needed to go bigger. They’re having to hire people, armed guards at every movie theater to keep people from fucking, because they just can’t help it during this movie.

Laci (00:58:47):

When he really could have, what might have been better is just for it to be this thing people discover, which is what happened anyway. Because then if you take ownership of it, you’re not being told this is a thing, you need to think a certain thing about this thing, then it becomes like, “Have you seen this movie I found?”

Matt (00:59:02):

So the question then is, should they have gone for the R rating? Should they have dramatically reduced the amount of nudity? No.

Laci (00:59:09):

Then you wouldn’t have the period scene, you wouldn’t have floppy fish full front hole. No way. Don’t you take away any parts of this? No.

Matt (00:59:16):

It really is surprising to see full frontal in a Hollywood movie.

Laci (00:59:20):

While simulating fucking.

Matt (00:59:21):

Curtains

Laci (00:59:22):

Match the drapes, ladies and gentlemen, for you 17 and under out there.

Matt (00:59:25):

After the failure of showgirls, Verhoeven is now like, “Well, you’re a sci-fi guy, so you go make starship troopers, and that too is a big flop.” And once again, people don’t understand it and they take it deadly seriously. This movie that is spoofing fascist propaganda, people are like, “Is Palmer Hoven a fascist?”

Laci (00:59:44):

God. That’s the joke.

Matt (00:59:47):

And then it becomes reclaimed. Again, see my video essay. It’s an incredible movie and we’re living in starship troopers right now. Everything that happens in that movie is like, “Oh yeah, the president right there is Donald Trump.” All of his movies, reality catches up to them. So then he makes Hollowman in 2000 and then he decides I’m leaving Hollywood. I’m going back to Europe. He’s made a few movies in Europe. They’re great. Black book in 2006, L 2016 Benedetta in 2021. I like that book or am I

Laci (01:00:11):

Thinking of Black Phone?

Matt (01:00:13):

You’re thinking of Black Phone or Black Bag?

Laci (01:00:15):

Black Bag. That’s what I’m thinking of.

Matt (01:00:16):

So yeah, had to go back to Europe where he can let his freak flag fly. God bless you, Paul Verhoeven. God bless you. That’s

Laci (01:00:24):

The big song in Shrek the Musical. Just funny that you just said that and you haven’t seen Track the Musical

Matt (01:00:29):

Yet. God bless you, Paul Verhoeven.

Laci (01:00:31):

Yeah. God bless you, Paul Verhoeven.

Matt (01:00:33):

God bless you. Oh, let your freak flag fly. And God bless you, Elizabeth Berkley. And this movie, wonderful movie. I had so much fun watching it. I’ve been thinking about it. I mean, it’s what our podcast is. We talk about it and think about it a lot.

Laci (01:00:46):

But this time we really did it,

Matt (01:00:48):

Is what he’s

Laci (01:00:48):

Saying.

Matt (01:00:49):

And now we’re going to talk about the movie, the movie discussion, show girls, and hey, stay tuned to hear a little crazy sex advice from Laci and I.

Laci (01:00:58):

It’s not crazy. It’s fully grounded and helpful. Also, this is the end of what you’re going to know if you don’t go to our podcast and listen to the rest. We have so much more to offer you. Scene by scene.

Matt (01:01:12):

We have such sights to show you.

Laci (01:01:15):

Snatch by fucking snatch. What

Matt (01:01:17):

Do you think it’d be like if Pinhead met Nomi? What would they get up to?

Laci (01:01:20):

They would have a drink. They would kiki. They would hit it off. I think they understand each other, think they’ve seen things. And I think he would know that she needs nothing more. You are a woman who gets to choose.

Matt (01:01:33):

Where are you from? Different places.

Laci (01:01:37):

Different places.

Matt (01:02:13):

All right. Sex month is coming to a conclusion. I don’t know. This movie is a Western when you think about it.

Laci (01:02:19):

Sure.

Matt (01:02:19):

Because she’s a cowboy. We first see her, she’s got the tassels. And it is like the classic Western trope of a man with no past walks into a town. And she’s literally, her name is Nomi. There is no me.

Laci (01:02:31):

Or Nomi.

Matt (01:02:33):

Know

Laci (01:02:33):

Me.

Matt (01:02:34):

But Noami is just one letter away from name. And she’s just the American going out west to make her fortune. That’s what makes America America. That’s why America has this sort of casino mentality of, I’m going to beat everybody else and make my fortune rather than see other Americans as my brothers and sisters who we can all work together to build something good.

Laci (01:02:57):

And Vegas is the last stop until you drop off the end of the world because you only have Los Angeles after this. If you’re going to keep going west, this is your second to last chance

Matt (01:03:09):

To

Laci (01:03:09):

Reinvent yourself. You’ve only got one more.

Matt (01:03:11):

One more chance. And I like that the movie ends with a show girls too, maybe. Mid credits, she’s with Thanos in Hollywood and she’s assembling the infinity stones.

Laci (01:03:22):

Why? Because

Matt (01:03:22):

That’s what’s coming down in show girls too.

Laci (01:03:25):

Oh, because that’s the only way to get the showgirls vehicle off the ground. You

Matt (01:03:28):

Got

Laci (01:03:28):

To wrap it in some adventures.

Matt (01:03:31):

But the camera reveals her. She’s hitchhiking. She’s 342 miles away from Las Vegas and she gets picked up in the blue Ford by the Elvis guy. And he’s like, “Hey, it’s your lucky day. Why don’t you screw down?” It’s

Laci (01:03:44):

Like a Kmart Michael Madsen.

Matt (01:03:47):

Oh yeah?

Laci (01:03:48):

What did you say? That’s what he looks like.

Matt (01:03:50):

He does kind of look like Michael Madsen. They

Laci (01:03:51):

Both look like Elvis Impersonators to me. Oh, interesting. They’re both going for that look, that aesthetic. I mean, obviously this guy is literally supposed to be that. It starts off, her jeans are weird. Her jacket’s weird. Her shirt’s weird. Why does she have such a big bag? What’s in it? Why is it so important to her? All of it. And then she’s just out of the … He’s out of the gate gross, but you are a person in the mid 90s hitchhiking. So by now we know that’s the kind of people that pull over. But what are her options? She needs a free ride and she needs to use her sexuality to get that ride. So she needs to make … It’s like when you get into prison, you punch the biggest guy.

Matt (01:04:37):

And that’s what she’s doing. And just immediately, every- Chill. Every interaction, she escalates 211, pulls out the switchblade. Yeah, and then he does what guys … Hey, chill, man. Sorry for trying to do somebody a favor.

Laci (01:04:50):

Oh my God. I’m so sorry. I implied that you would owe me sex for this favor. Geez.

Matt (01:04:56):

But then she puts the knife away and then it seems like, okay, they maybe settle into a nice kind of friendship.

Laci (01:05:02):

Does she put the knife away? No, he matches her crazy by pulling in front of an 18-wheeler about to cause a fricking collision. Just to make the point then, I’ll pull over and drop you off, but first I’ll risk my life. So which one of us is crazy? And she’s just like, “Okay. Okay, clearly you’re fucking wild too.”

Matt (01:05:21):

But at least both of them are safely buckled in. No, no, no. Nobody wore seat belts back then. And you can see riding with my dad in his truck. Right. Seatbelt just over there.

Laci (01:05:30):

Well, and she goes into the fucking knife. She goes, “She would’ve stuck herself.” But these two guys, these two, they have a past and their pals are crossing and he’s about to go do his con and she’s about to go live her dream.

Matt (01:05:46):

Every single man in the movie, I mean, basically everyone, but especially the man is trying to work her in a way. This is one of those guys like Al, like Robert Davi, who she knows the score with and she sort of knows how to negotiate this. It’s just that she does get swindled by him. But even at the end when she reunites with him, it’s kind of like, “Oh.” Yeah.

Laci (01:06:07):

It’s like, I already know your fucking stick. And also, I guess I kind of need a shtick right now. So let’s get on this together.

Matt (01:06:14):

Right. And maybe he’s off living his own parallel movie where he’s trying to become a-

Laci (01:06:18):

I’d watch it.

Matt (01:06:19):

An Elvis star, a show Elvis. So

Laci (01:06:21):

True romance.

Matt (01:06:22):

Don’t remember true romance. Okay. I don’t remember that movie. I’m Christian Cedar. Say you

Laci (01:06:27):

Don’t remember it. That’s exactly the movie. What are

Matt (01:06:29):

You going to do in Vegas? He asks, “You going to win?” She says, “I’m going to

Laci (01:06:35):

Dance.” No one takes her seriously, Matt, and you are just another man that doesn’t get it.

Matt (01:06:40):

I don’t get it. It’s true.

Laci (01:06:42):

You don’t get dancing?

Matt (01:06:43):

No, I don’t. I’m like- I don’t

Laci (01:06:45):

Get guitar.

Matt (01:06:47):

I know you don’t. It’s okay. We make it work somehow.

Laci (01:06:49):

What’s not to get? I understand why someone would want to play a musical instrument. You don’t understand why someone would want to move their body since you can’t fathom doing it.

Matt (01:06:56):

That’s right.

Laci (01:06:57):

You can’t even get on the floor. No,

Matt (01:06:58):

What do you mean by don’t understand? Of course, I get the appeal.What I’m not good at is looking at a dance and assessing whether it’s good or not, or whether it’s funny or not. And I think Paul Verhoeven might agree with me because he has two very extreme crazy dance sequences and nightclubs. And I think this is sort of just like I’m kind of a middle-aged man and I’m looking at young people dancing and they look like aliens to me.

Laci (01:07:22):

Okay.

Matt (01:07:22):

I think that’s why it’s in both movies. But except in basic instinct, Michael Douglas is like 49 years old and trying to fit in with the young people.

Laci (01:07:28):

Wearing his little shirt that’s not hip at all, but it’s not a cop shirt.

Matt (01:07:32):

And

Laci (01:07:32):

He just, “Hey, yeah, I can do sex in bathrooms.” And

Matt (01:07:36):

That’s how I feel. That’s how I feel when I see him. You’re even wearing the

Laci (01:07:39):

Same shirt as Michael Douglas. It’s the same style. It’s

Matt (01:07:41):

Hanley. It’s why put it on. Yeah. And there is an incredible moment in Richard Jewell, Quinn Eastwood’s Richard Jewel, and he directed that movie when he was probably in his late 80s. And it’s set in 1996 at the Atlanta Olympics and there’s a crowd. It’s sort of filming a celebration the night before the Olympics start and it’s all these people dancing the macarena and you see a hundred thousand Americans doing the macarena and there’s something that looks so apocalyptic about it, like them just doing it in unison like drones.

Laci (01:08:17):

Because it’s a very monotone moment in the song too. It’s right before the, “Hey.” So it’s.

Matt (01:08:23):

My God, you’re just hearing you do that. That is a buzzing sound. Yes. It feels like- Hey. And in the movie it is great. You know a terrorist act is coming, so you are supposed to, and it doesn’t come till the next day, but you’re like, “Oh, this country’s about to get-

Laci (01:08:39):

This is an omen.

Matt (01:08:40):

Something’s coming.This is end of history shit.” So I think, yeah, there’s men who look at dancing and are like, “I don’t go to … ” That’s my point. So they’re going to go to Vegas. They arrive in Vegas. They go to a casino and Jeff is the Elvis guy and he’s like, “Hey, baby, just leave your suitcase in the car. I’ve got an uncle who works at the Riviera. Maybe he will get you a job.” And then she’s like … And he’s like, “What? Hasn’t anybody ever been nice to you before? Jesus.”

Laci (01:09:07):

And that’s actually, he sees her and he sees himself in her and he knows exactly how to manipulate it. So it’s even meaner because he’s like, “I know exactly the kind of phrase to tell you to make your guard come down a little bit. Plus, I just implied that I might get you a job, so you just locked the fuck out. And so you kind of owe me. ” And I also didn’t force you to have sex with me with a knife. So everything is transactional in this movie at all. It’s like she’s constantly weighing, what do I owe this guy? Can I get away with not doing it? Can I overpower this man?

Matt (01:09:41):

And she’s going to manipulate and work people too. She just gets to a point where she’s like, “But there is a line that everyone else in this world is willing to cross that I’m not.

Laci (01:09:50):

” She’s also constantly fighting this. Everyone feels like she owes them her story. Everyone that she gets to know won’t just get to know who she is right now. They all want to ask her about her past and they all want to pry. And it’s like, what do you do if you’re a person who doesn’t want that you want to start over? And your past is fucked up, but not because you did it. It wasn’t your fault. So do you owe people all of this and you’re constantly having to … She doesn’t want to be vulnerable. She spent her whole life vulnerable.

Matt (01:10:22):

And I mean, that’s why I think of the movie is playing with Western iconography, not just Vegas being literally in the West, but the idea of the myth of America is you can go somewhere and reinvent yourself. Your past doesn’t matter. On the very basis of your merits, you can create something brand new.

Laci (01:10:41):

Okay. But here’s a fun game too. And I was doing this the whole time with basic instinct. Just for a moment, switch the character to a swaggering male for Sharon Stone or for Elizabeth Berkeley. Everything makes more sense. The awkward hugging, the two close hugging, the intimacy where you don’t expect it, the pulling a switchblade, the throwing a basket of fries and making ketchup to something I’ve never seen it do. Just because someone asks you a question you don’t want to answer, but if you put a man, it makes so much more … It’s like, yeah, okay.

Matt (01:11:15):

Got to do that. He’s a mercurial guy.

Laci (01:11:18):

He’s been through some stuff. He’s probably got a good reason for why he’s acting like that, but a woman does it and you’re like, “Okay, awkward bitch. Why are you getting out of line?”

Matt (01:11:26):

That’s why I think the cowboy imagery is deliberate, is it’s taking a traditionally masculine trope and putting a woman in it. She even solves- She’s cowboys. … dilimate in the end by kicking a man with extreme violence with cowboy boots or maybe she’s not wearing cowboy boots at that point, but yeah. She’s not. Putting this woman into a typically a male role.

Laci (01:11:48):

And she suffered dearly for it.

Matt (01:11:51):

Gets to the casino and he’s like, “Here, here’s $10. Why don’t you go play the slot machines?” And as you said in our history segment, she instantly wins. And that’s of course what happens to you when you go into

Laci (01:12:00):

The- She’s throwing the quarters. She’s already being … She’s not the most careful person. She hasn’t had a lot of access to money. And when she does get money of any kind of lump sum, she instantly spends it. So she’s throwing the quarters in the air. No one’s ever done this. Attracts the attention of the Whitey who’s now going to cut her money into fourths basically by giving her silver dollars. But then she gets the chunk of money for the terrible lap dance, buys herself with a Versace dress. She plays by the cowboys way. She’s like, “I might only live today. I might as well throw some quarters around.”

Matt (01:12:35):

But that’s the only thing that I forgot to mention. I mean, think of Deadwood. The town, the American Western town, the first thing you build is a brothel.

Laci (01:12:45):

For sure. So it’s putting the two together. It’s like, what if the person responsible for fucking were also in charge? What if it were her idea? What if you get the sex she says you get? And then she’s still not in a vulnerable situation. You’re going to pay her, you’re going to treat her right. It’s fucking with our heads because we’re like, you can’t … No, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t use sex for money and then also have power. It shouldn’t blow our minds. But why not? Why not someone who’s fucking amazing at sex? We saw what she can do. Why shouldn’t she get top dollar and be proud of it? It doesn’t make sense.

Matt (01:13:23):

And you can’t show your boobs professionally and then take umbrage when somebody later asks to see your boobs.

Laci (01:13:29):

Except for that, hey, just because I can graphic design doesn’t mean I’m going to make you a logo when you ask for one. Fuck you. These are my money makers. Pay to see them.

Matt (01:13:38):

We love to gamble. We love the casinos. We love the slam

Laci (01:13:40):

Cheese. We

Matt (01:13:42):

Go

Laci (01:13:42):

To loose.

Matt (01:13:43):

My God. It must have taken so … When they realized, Hey, let’s stop giving people physical money and you can just put it all on a card.

Laci (01:13:51):

It worked for Chuck E. Cheese.

Matt (01:13:52):

It must have taken so fucking long to lose all your money if you’re just putting … You have to manually put in a quarter and pull the thing. And now you just go to the slopes and just …

Laci (01:14:02):

Whoa, you’re shaking our devices, honey.

Matt (01:14:04):

It’s like a dipping bird, just pressing the button, pressing the button and it’s gone. And it’s gone. So yeah, loses all her money and as soon as all of her money’s gone, a strange man pops up and he’s like, “Lose all your money, sweetheart. You want to earn it back.” There’s always some creepy man lurking. You have to

Laci (01:14:20):

Sell it eventually. Yes. Don’t dare be hot. I mean, I know it’s worse to not be attractive and to get overlooked and all these things, but it’s also less dangerous. When you’re a five foot 10 person in heels who looks like that, who dares to have her cleavage out, you are asking for it. You will now get assaulted. Expect assault. It’s your fault.

Matt (01:14:42):

Her being so tall is another thing that makes her so perfect for the rules. She cannot hide. She towers over.

Laci (01:14:49):

There is something safer in being just an average looking person and less tall.

Matt (01:14:54):

So she realizes she has been had and she runs out into the parking lot. Jeff is gone. The truck is gone with her suitcase. There’s no way

Laci (01:15:00):

It was worth $10 and he gave her $10. So Naomi, you came out the right end of this. But yeah.

Matt (01:15:08):

I’m glad we- I don’t

Laci (01:15:09):

Want to know what’s-

Matt (01:15:10):

I don’t want to know what’s in the suitcase. I have been wondering, would it be better if we don’t actually learn what has happened to her in her past? We don’t learn that much, but-

Laci (01:15:21):

But we do know she was forced into soliciting, punished for it, and then will be punished her whole life for it without anyone seeing that she was pushed into this by terrible circumstances. Things that if it happened to a man, it’d be like this tragic underdog story, but because it happened to her, she’s a piece of shit. And it’s not about the suitcase. It’s about she had an instinct. She felt like she knew what kind of guy this is, and she let her guard down because he was nice to her and said the right … All she is, is a person walking around with instinct. She’s the only thing that can protect her from dying and partying with her money. And if she … She failed here. She went against her

Matt (01:16:04):

Instincts.

Laci (01:16:05):

So that’s why she throws up.

Matt (01:16:07):

And I mean, this isn’t an insult. She does act like a child throughout the movie because I mean, she is emotionally stunted. Of

Laci (01:16:15):

Course.

Matt (01:16:18):

Didn’t learn the nice manners of living in society. But as we see and why I’ve really come to love the ending of the movie is that is why she’s the only person in the movie who could actually get justice because everyone else in the movie- She has no ties. … is too tight bought into the system of like, yes, it’s a tragedy what happened to Molly. That’s why she’s going to get compensated and sign an NDA and everything. Okay,

Laci (01:16:40):

But part of me does want to dress up for her. But yeah, I know.

Matt (01:16:43):

So she’s flailing and just beating a car. And then so this … So Molly, this character Molly played by Gina Rivera runs out like, “That’s my car. Stop hitting. Hey, stop hitting my car, weirdo.” But Nomi is freaking crying and stuff and just hugs Molly,

Laci (01:16:58):

Molly. After she throws up. After throws up. After she throws up and then tries to run away from Molly, Molly pulls her out of death because she’s about to get hit by two cars and that’s when in that moment she proves to Nomi, I’m actually trying to help you. I’m not another Jeff or whoever that was, and that’s why she lets her guard down and hugs her. And they have this instant bond of like, you are pure niceness and you’re not fake because you weren’t mad at me about the car and then you pushed me away when I pushed you. You’re not afraid to be real with me, but you also saved my life and you’re … There’s a way to prove to people that you’re genuine and not dangerous.

Matt (01:17:39):

Buys her french fries and she famously eats french fries real weird. She throws it. Like a child can’t get the straw to go in the drink, the ketchup’s not pouring right. And Molly’s like, “So where are you from?” Just tosses the bag for the basket of front. It

Laci (01:17:52):

Lands on the lady’s table behind her and she’s like-

Matt (01:17:55):

Bonus fry. Different places, which I always remember as deaf friend. But different places. And so Molly’s like, “You know what? You’re a crazy weird lady, but why don’t you come stay in my house?” And then six weeks later, these guys are best friends, living in a trailer, but it’s fun. They’re best friends now.

Laci (01:18:17):

They are cute.

Matt (01:18:17):

Nomi is showing off her fingernails. Molly’s like, “Hey, I’m going to work tonight at the goddess show at the Stardust. Why don’t you come by? I can show you around backstage. That’s where you want to be, right?” Yes. Yes, I do. The only pure relationship in the movie, the only goodness in the movie is their friendship.

Laci (01:18:40):

I would say Hindriet and Owl are second place

Matt (01:18:42):

In that.

Laci (01:18:43):

And I’d also say that Crystal, Nomi and Crystal are too much alike for it to work, but I think there was a real moment or an opportunity for her to actually be close with Crystal in a way that she just couldn’t see past. Crystal just reads as too skeezy and scammy and playing games, but Crystal clearly is really into her and wants her in a sexual romantic way. And if she’d been gay, that had been a good relationship to pursue maybe.

Matt (01:19:17):

I just think Crystal is too bought into this competitive ecosystem and cannot-

Laci (01:19:24):

Can she share?

Matt (01:19:25):

Can’t share anything, including the men too. She’s in competition with all of them.

Laci (01:19:30):

Yeah.

Matt (01:19:31):

And that’s why she is where she is. Well,

Laci (01:19:33):

And Crystal’s the original cowboy, right? She’s got the cowboy hat. She says darling. She dresses like a cowboy. She sits with her legs wide open. She’s in on all the meetings. Just because she’s the star of the show doesn’t mean she should sit in on everything, but she insists on it. She also has people, right? She’s got roots, things she can talk about. Nomi literally has nothing including no story and no knowhow or natural skillset to make up a backstory that she’ll remember. It would’ve occurred to her by now, but it hasn’t.

Matt (01:20:10):

Yeah, I love- New

Laci (01:20:11):

York.

Matt (01:20:11):

So where are you from?

Laci (01:20:14):

Question one.

Matt (01:20:15):

But I love when the HR lady’s like, “What’s your social security number?” She’s like, “Well, I don’t remember, but let me look into that and I’ll get back to you. ” And she has this look like, “I nailed it. ” That was a great line I just had. I’ll look into what my social security number is. I’m going

Laci (01:20:29):

To give that a good look.

Matt (01:20:31):

Gina Gershon as Crystal Connors, our first look at her, the star of the show.

Laci (01:20:36):

Love. Love her.

Matt (01:20:38):

This sort of Cirque du Soleil show where they’re all dancing as like horny volcano people.

Laci (01:20:44):

Okay. You’ve never seen Cirque de Soleil.

Matt (01:20:46):

Yeah, I have. It’s the same thing. Horny volcano people. Sorry, what’s your objection?

Laci (01:20:50):

I’m just saying, if you’re doing all those aerials and aerobatics and shit with your tits out, you’re going to lose a nipple. It’s not exactly this. Okay.

Matt (01:20:59):

I’m trying to paint a picture with my words for people who haven’t seen this movie. Think

Laci (01:21:03):

Of Vegas.

Matt (01:21:05):

We see this show and the thing about this is Crystal Connors is the star of the show and the announcer will tell you, ladies and gentlemen, the Stardust is proud to welcome Ms. Crystal Connor’s a big star. And she is Gina Gershon, but there’s nothing she’s doing that every single other person on the stage isn’t also doing.

Laci (01:21:24):

In fact, she does less.

Matt (01:21:26):

She’s the star because they say she’s the star. Well,

Laci (01:21:28):

And she’s a star because she’s got more years than these other people. She’s been in more shows. But my question is, other shows where?

Matt (01:21:35):

She said Broadway. She was in Broadway. Oh,

Laci (01:21:36):

Okay.

Matt (01:21:38):

No, I know.

Laci (01:21:39):

So she’s got a professionalism. She’s got a work ethic. If you’re going to center a show around a person, you want to think they’ll buy in and show up every day. It’s got to be hard to have a show in Vegas when the schedule is literally every day probably. For anyone that’s doing a stint in Vegas, Cher, Elvis, Britney Spears, it’s like working the fucking tonight show or whatever.

Matt (01:22:05):

All those people you named, they have fame outside of Vegas. I know that in Vegas, there are these people who are like only famous in Vegas. Vegas

Laci (01:22:11):

Staples. Beyond people who are impersonating?

Matt (01:22:14):

Right. Yeah. And it’s just, they’re Vegas famous. They’re a big name in that town. Well- I think that what happens in this movie later when they just slot know me into this role who literally has no actual resume to bolster the fact that she’s a star, is I think this is Paul Verhoeven saying like, “You can just tell anybody anything. Just tell the rubes, this is a big star, know me Malone, and everybody’s just going to believe it because the signs are telling me. “

Laci (01:22:39):

They’re there to eat bad chicken and watch boobs.

Matt (01:22:42):

Right.

Laci (01:22:43):

We’re fine.

Matt (01:22:44):

But that’s why I say this movie is about America because I think especially back then, Europeans who came to America would always point out what’s the biggest difference? Advertising. It’s everywhere. The marketing.That’s

Laci (01:22:56):

Why I was saying even before he made this movie, even Verhoeven was bought into this ideal of Las Vegas that he had in his heart, that he’d seen on TV, that he’d seen … Even portrayed in gritty movies, he still saw people on the inside. He wasn’t seeing what it’s like to be a person on the outside that you’re rooting for. You just see outside people who are rubes. So he goes to make this a little bit more romantic Vegas movie about this romantic idea of show girls, sees what it’s actually like and changes the entire thing. So marketing’s even working on him when he’s a guy that’s really good at seeing the marketing.

Matt (01:23:38):

It’s

Laci (01:23:39):

Interesting.

Matt (01:23:40):

It happened to him twice. It happened him going to Hollywood and then it happened to him going to Las Vegas. He’s reversed Nomi.

Laci (01:23:46):

To live here is to be disenchanted. But think of what it’s like to be an American abroad. We’re just like, “What?” You want to do? That’s what it’s like.

Matt (01:23:59):

You never get a totally clear look at the crowd of these shows. You kind of just can see it in the background. They’re never in focus, but it is just board tourists who are barely paying attention.

Laci (01:24:08):

You said it perfect. It’s like a cruise. These are people who needed to come inside for a while and needed to stop spending money for a while. Maybe a cruise ship isn’t perfect, but the reason there are other things at a casino are for two things. For people who need to take a break from spending their money and from people who are coming there to do something else and go, “Should I spend money too?” Like a concert. That’s why they are also concert venues. Bring them in. Come on. That’s why we work hand in hand. Entertain yourself and then entertain us.

Matt (01:24:36):

Also, “Oh, hey, I won a bunch of money. Let’s all go get a big dinner at the steakhouse inside the casino.” So it’s just the money just ends up back in the casino anyway.

Laci (01:24:46):

Or they win vouchers instead of … You get rewards for sitting in the seat longer and those rewards are just stuff you can cash in at the actual hotel. It’s brilliant. It is brilliant fucking marketing. My Aunt Wanda, bless her. Love her so much, but she will be rolling in free, maybe beep out her name, free vacations for the rest of her life because she’s got seat time. And what better to say, Wanda, you got some money for a vacation? Come back over here. But she loves it.

Matt (01:25:15):

We ate Jersey Mike’s for lunch. I got one free sandwich with my shore points. I mean, yeah, I’m tied in dessert. If I want a sandwich, I’m going to Jersey Mind. It’s your best belief.

Laci (01:25:24):

I’m going to use my Jersey Shore points.

Matt (01:25:26):

There is a press conference afterward and we have the casino owner, the guy who runs the hotel, the big boss. Whoever he is, I don’t know his name. There’s a lot of men whose names I’m going to have to try to keep track of. So this is Crystal’s big debut at the Stardust and he’s like, “This is Welcome to Mess Crystal Connors. This is what Las Vegas is all about. ” And so we get our first look at Kyle McLaughlin as Zach. He is the entertainment director of the hotel, Zach Kyle McLaughlin. And this is how you knew Kyle McLaughlin. It wasn’t from Twin Peaks. It wasn’t from Blue Velvet or …

Laci (01:26:01):

Is he not in Romeo Michelle’s house cover Eugene?

Matt (01:26:03):

No.

Laci (01:26:04):

Where am I thinking of him?

Matt (01:26:05):

The Flintstones.

Laci (01:26:06):

Yes. Yes, I am. There’s one other thing too, but I can’t think of it. This is how I knew him. Big chin fish sex man.

Matt (01:26:15):

And there is something unsettling about the way he looks and that’s why David Lynch liked to use him because he seems simultaneously super handsome and super wholesome and super untrustworthy.

Laci (01:26:26):

Well, he looks like a drawing of a superhero if you were to draw his chin. It’s too big. He has that classical chiseled jaw, but it’s too much. Still handsome though.

Matt (01:26:38):

And he is, yeah, entertainment director of the hotel. And Nomi and Molly are sort of watching from the sidelines like, “Wow, Ms. Crystal Connors, I’m in the presence of greatness.” And Molly’s like, “She’s great, isn’t she?” And Nomi says her catchphrase, she doesn’t suck. And so then they go backstage and Molly works as a seamstress. And so works for the show and gets to go into the dressing rooms and stuff. And we go into Crystal’s dressing room where she undresses and stuff. And Nomi’s just standing there and Elizabeth Berkeley does a good job of never knowing where to put her hands or how to hold her body. She’s so uncomfortable in contrast to Molly, who’s totally relaxed and in her element. And Molly introduces Nomi to Crystal and is like, “Hey, this is my friend. Nomi, she’s a dancer too.” And Crystal says, “Where?” And Nomi says, “At the cheetah.” And Crystal says, “I don’t know what you do in darling, but if you’re doing it at the cheetah, it’s not dancing.” And Noemi does the first of many, many angry runaways.

(01:27:39):

But first she says, “You don’t know shit,” runs away.

Laci (01:27:43):

But Molly shouldn’t have done that. I mean, Molly does end up setting into motion her getting into the show, but it’s already awkward. I’m already at the same stress’s friend. And now you’re telling this big star that I’m a dancer to, and then you’re going to let her know I’m at a strip club, Molly.

Matt (01:28:00):

That’s true. Yeah. What the

Laci (01:28:01):

Fuck you thought? At least say like, oh, she’s in between. She’s been auditioning. Say something.

Matt (01:28:08):

Yeah.

Laci (01:28:08):

Don’t say she fucks for a living.

Matt (01:28:10):

My son plays guitar too. Mom, shut up.

Laci (01:28:13):

That’s

Matt (01:28:14):

Exactly- Don’t tell Kurt Gobain that.

Laci (01:28:16):

Exactly. Molly knows what she needs to do to cheer her friend up. Let’s go dancing how you like to do. She’s dancing so big, Molly’s like ducking. Do you see this picture? Molly, God, what a saint. Anyway, so she’s dancing her fucking ass off. And that’s when James sees her and he sees potential, but he also sees someone who is flailing like a toddler. So he’s like, “I’m going to go dance with her.”

Matt (01:28:45):

Yeah, this is Glen Plummer as James. She’s dancing and he inserts himself like, “Hey, you got a lot of raw talent. I could teach you to dance.” And she kicks him in the dick.

Laci (01:28:55):

After he says that she doesn’t know what she’s doing, and that’s after she compliments him for knowing what he’s doing. All of this makes sense. You don’t give this woman an insult after she just gave you a compliment. They don’t realize how few and far between Nome Malone compliments are. For her to dance with you and then say that you deserve to dance with her and now she needs your help, but then he does the most worst thing he could have done is he refers to her sexuality and she is using it to dance and he is saying, “You’re teasing my dick.” And all that sounds like to her is you’re a whore. You’re not a dancer. You’re a whore, not a dancer. And every moment when she has a big reaction, you can track it to someone telling her, “Go back to being a whore.”

Matt (01:29:43):

That’s

Laci (01:29:43):

All you ever are

Matt (01:29:44):

And were. And he will try to lecture her on like, “But don’t you see that what they’re doing over in the casino, it’s just the corporate version of prostitution.” And she’s like, “She doesn’t want to hear any of that shit.”

Laci (01:29:55):

Right. Let me go be a starving dancer with you. I was already starving And also it’s still transactional here. He says, “I wrote that number for you and it’s not like I’m seeing any money from it, so I might as well get a piece of pussy.” Okay, so there you go. You’re going to use what you’re doing over me too. There’s no situation where Nomi doesn’t get expected to sexually favor her way for this world, but then she’s demonized for it.

Matt (01:30:22):

This spirals into a big fight in the club that Nomi then gets blamed for by the bouncers and they escort her out and we pick up the next morning, she’s in jail. She was in jail all night.

Laci (01:30:32):

To his credit, I don’t know how much her bail was, but he pays for it. And then, I mean, she’s a cool customer. She’s like, “Thanks for bailing me out. Well, can I at least give you a cup of coffee?” See, James has this habit of doing things she’s not asking him to do. He goes to teach her to dance. She didn’t ask for it. He bails her out of deal. She didn’t fucking ask for it. In fact, Molly’s here. He writes her a song and wants her to be in his dance. She didn’t ask for this. Quit being so mad at her for not responding the right way to the things you’re putting on her. But it’s still cute and I like their relationship. It’s a weird … We see each other. We don’t know each other’s shit, but we have a mutual respect and we’re both flawed

Matt (01:31:15):

And … No, it’s a flawed … He is a flawed person. It’s an interesting dynamic. He is sincere about his love for dance and wanting to dance with her, but also he is transactional and trying to work her.

Laci (01:31:29):

But think about it. He’s also disenchanted coming from New York. He’s a trained dancer who thought, “Okay, what do you do with a degree in dancing? Where do I do this? ” It didn’t work out in New York, wherever he was, so he comes to Vegas. And now all he is is a bouncer. So you got to think he’s the male … He isn’t able to do these shows. He seems to have enough skill to be a male dancer in this shit, but he came with this artistry and passion and like, “No, God damn it. I want to do art. I don’t want to do whatever the fuck this is. ” But all he’s probably good for is a Stardust show. And that’s probably why he hates it so much.

Matt (01:32:05):

And he lords over the … I mean, immediately, the second thing he says to her is, “You have raw talent. I could teach you because I learned a New York.” I’m a

Laci (01:32:13):

Learned …

Matt (01:32:14):

Right. I got the training that you didn’t get. You didn’t go through the carwash of learning all the stuff.

Laci (01:32:18):

She doesn’t know how to say Versace. There’s no one to have ever taught her anything. Yeah. She doesn’t know what a NBA is. Weirdly, the nicest person about teaching her as she goes is …

Matt (01:32:31):

Kyle McLaughlin. Yeah. And he’s doing it as part of his good cop routine of still of ultimately just putting her through the, “We’re going to destroy you machine or the exploitation machine.” Because it requires good cops and bad cops.

Laci (01:32:46):

Schmoozing. Yeah. Right. Okay.

Matt (01:32:50):

But she is used to … People do favors for her and she instantly acts like, “That doesn’t mean I owe you fucking anything.” And he’s like, “Can I at least buy you a cup of coffee?” And she’s just deflecting, deflecting, deflecting, gets in the car with Molly.

Laci (01:33:00):

Says, “Give me a quarter. Buy yourself a cup.” I love that. There are two things she does that are so fucking cool in this movie. That’s the first one. The second one is the thing I’ll tell you later.

Matt (01:33:10):

We know she didn’t go to work because Molly says, “Al, so mad at you for not going to work lessons.” I

Laci (01:33:15):

Got my period Al when we get blood all over everything.

Matt (01:33:18):

The Cheetah Club, although it’s actually called Cheetahs.This is like the people who call it Barnes & Nobles. I get a little. It’s Cheetahs. It’s not the Cheetah. The environment here is what you’ll see among the workers, the dancers who work there, it is way more communal. These people are all, they’re friends. These people have each other’s backs. The dancers here. They’re after

Laci (01:33:39):

Work. They don’t think each other are better than the other one. They share drugs. They have relationships with each other.

Matt (01:33:46):

Yeah. It’s nice. Even Robert Davies Al who comes in, he introduces this new girl, Hope. He has to give the dancers all fake names like Tiffany and Heather. And this has to be like a Verhoeven, I’m a Dutchman. All these American girl names are the exact same.

Laci (01:34:03):

We’re selling

Matt (01:34:03):

Class. But to somebody like Al, no, no, no. There’s a huge difference between Penny and Hope. Well,

Laci (01:34:09):

Because a Penny is not classy. It’s just a Penny for

Matt (01:34:13):

Name record. There’s a difference between Nomi and Heather. But what difference is the exact same thing?

Laci (01:34:18):

I don’t know. It’s like the whitest names ever he picked. It’s touch and go. He touches … He touches, he goes. If he comes and he … Fuck. If he comes, that’s okay. Unless he takes it out, puts it all over you, that’s not okay. Unless he gives you a big tip, that’s okay.

Matt (01:34:38):

And tell this is the new arrival hope, but you’re going to have to give me a blowjob in the sea ends with her going, “Is he serious?” Now, there’s a way of reading this of like he never actually makes any of them do it.

Laci (01:34:48):

Sure. But

Matt (01:34:50):

The

Laci (01:34:50):

Gullible ones, you can probably assume he’s getting a blowjob.

Matt (01:34:52):

That it is more like this is a way of immediately fishing out any of the people who do not have the stomach to work here, to thrive here.

Laci (01:35:02):

For sure, for sure. Because Nomi doesn’t … And Nomi instantly snaps into like a, “I’m looking out for you role with Hope.” She’s a nice person. She’s like, “Oh, let me fix your lipstick.” Or, “Hey, I’m this. ” And she’s looking at the interaction between Al and Hope. And you could just … I think her acting in the background is interesting or it’s good, but I do try to read it like she will step in if Al steps out of line. She’s got that protector in her.

Matt (01:35:28):

Then who should arrive at Cheetah’s but Gina Gershon and Kyle McLaughlin?

Laci (01:35:32):

They really have nothing to do. You got to think being in Vegas every single night gets boring.

Matt (01:35:36):

I just think Gina Gershon was like, “Ooh, this little bitch came into the show and I’m going to go find her at her work now.” This

Laci (01:35:44):

Hot, sexy thing came in here thinking she’s a fucking dancer. I put her in her place and now I want to see if I was right, but she’s hot.

Matt (01:35:52):

Okay. No, that’s what I’m saying though.

Laci (01:35:54):

Yeah, but there’s an underlying attraction and hypnotic thing about her. She disrespected her, called her a, you don’t know shit. Now I’m going to go disrespect you in a way that you could never fucking imagine or forward. I’m going to disrespect you with money. So there’s of course that, but there’s also like people are drawn to know me. I met her once and now I just need to meet that bitch again.

Matt (01:36:20):

So Nomi comes out, we see her dance properly for the first time, but she’s distracted by Crystal Connors, but it doesn’t deter her. She keeps going. She

Laci (01:36:28):

Is good.

Matt (01:36:30):

And so Gina Gershon says to Kama Claucklin like, “You like her? I’ll buy her for you. ” And then at the same time, James has also arrived and he’s watching all of this go down. There’s a lot of moving parts in all of this. And so Crystal calls over to Noami, “We want a private dance with you. ” And Nomi’s like, “No, we’re not allowed to dance with women. It’s not something we’re allowed to do. ” We don’t

Laci (01:36:51):

Do couples and we don’t do women. Sorry. And then Al, Al’s backing up to the situation. Al is the eyes and ears and he’s like, “I’m waiting for the magic number. Okay. Nomi’s paying attention to the rules. Right now we won’t do that for 200, 35. So yes, we’ll break our rules for 500.” I also love that Al doesn’t take fifty fifty. He takes less than that. She gets 500, he takes two.

Matt (01:37:15):

I think

Laci (01:37:15):

That’s sweet.

Matt (01:37:17):

And he seems like he’s genuinely concerned that Nomi isn’t happy with the amount of money she’s … Because she runs away. He’s by himself and he’s like, seems like someone died. He’s literally just said … That’s his way of saying, I feel bad that she seems

Laci (01:37:30):

Funny. Of course, of course. I think in his heart of hearts, he likes to dilute himself into thinking his girls are okay with the jobs that they have when really they could never be the owner of the club. They could only ever work it. And I think he cares about them, and that’s just his way of having a denial about … I’m caring about people who I’m also subjugating. I’m not catching these girls at the best time in their lives.

Matt (01:37:53):

Nomi has to perform a private dry hump comcland while Gina Gershan watches.

Laci (01:37:57):

So Nomi’s so interesting too with … Everything with Gina Gershwin is this way. They are both constantly oscillating between, “I’m going to fuck you up and I’m going to show you what the fuck.” Nomi switches back and forth five times during this one interaction. It’s just like, “Ooh, I’m captivated. Oh, I hate you, bitch. Oh, I want to turn down. I’m going to hate you, bitch.” Yeah. Anyway, you just-

Matt (01:38:22):

This is the first full frontal we get in the movie.

Laci (01:38:24):

Might be the only. I don’t remember.

Matt (01:38:27):

She makes commas pants. Now, I know this is a thing that happens in strip clubs, but what do you do after that? You just walk around with cum pants? I have

Laci (01:38:34):

No … Yeah.

Matt (01:38:36):

Maybe

Laci (01:38:36):

It’s a badge of honor. You paid a lot of money for those cum pants. Maybe it’s just a little.

Matt (01:38:40):

Two other … I mean, it’s less than P, but people will see it. I guess you see a guy at the strip club with a little patch of wetness on his pants and thump pants, but hey, brother.

Laci (01:38:50):

He got his money’s worth. You’re going to pay 500 bucks. At least she rode you the right way. There are plenty of lap dances where it’s not even possible to come.

Matt (01:38:58):

Folks, right in if this has happened to you. Has this ever happened to you? And what do you do in this situation? Do they have just pants you can get in the bathroom? A

Laci (01:39:06):

Little come pad, that would be more economical. Just give them a little something to put around their

Matt (01:39:11):

Bit. Maybe you want up toilet paper before you go in. They gave her $500. Nomi leaves and Kyle McLaughlin right after he comes his pants, that villainous swoop of hair gets it out of his eye. And then Al is very sweet to the girl. “Good night, girls. I hope you all have a great night. We love you. Al. Oh yeah. Know me. Know me. Not feeling great though, even though she made all this extra money.

Laci (01:39:36):

“Well, because what Crystal said when she walked out, she just wanted to make sure she knew her place. You’re a cheated dancer.

Matt (01:39:43):

Next day, James knocks on Nomi’s door. Just will not leave her alone. Hello, I wrote a dance for you. Come on. No, he doesn’t say that yet. He’s like, ” You have more natural dance talent than anyone I’ve ever seen. But last night I saw you fucking that guy and she’s like, wait a minute, you were following me? Wait, no, even more.You thought I was fucking him. I was not fucking him. “He’s like, ” You are fucking him. You are fucking. It’s all the same. “He is kind of a me of lecturing everybody about how capitalism really works, but it’s annoying when I do it.

Laci (01:40:13):

She is a person with three shitty choices. And last night she got to do the middle shit choice. So fuck you, James, for coming in there and saying she did the worst thing she could do because in her life, that at least had a wall of protection. All of that was on her terms. He doesn’t get to use his hands. She made him come inside of his own pants, which is a little bit humiliating. She had all the fucking power that she’s going to get in this situation. That is not like fucking him. That is like fucking him over for his money. And there’s a difference. James. He

Matt (01:40:48):

Says,” No, you fucked him and you fucked her too. You’re fucking everybody.

Laci (01:40:51):

Everybody’s getting A’s and shit.

Matt (01:40:53):

You know what you need to be doing is listening to my tutelage, which I acquired in New York City at the Academy.

Laci (01:40:59):

Because it’s working so well for you, James. You can’t even fucking dance at the Crave Club.

Matt (01:41:03):

Nomi and Molly go window shopping, celebrate this new bit of money she has, and they go on over to Versailles and she sees this dress. Versace.

Laci (01:41:12):

Oh, it’s

Matt (01:41:12):

Versace? Oh, thanks, Laci. You’re welcome. And she decides, “You know what? I’m going to splurge on it. ” She looks amazing. We get our first look at this lingering tease of Andrew Carver, this absurd looking male singer. Well,

Laci (01:41:26):

This is where she does the second thing that she does that’s so cool. She does this little … I can’t … I’m sorry. She does a tap dance move in the dress after she tells the person it doesn’t suck. It’s just her moment. She couldn’t be happier than in this moment. I just want to celebrate her here.

Matt (01:41:43):

For me, the biggest moment of happiness for her is when she’s sitting on her car hood looking at Las Vegas and eating the most glorious cheeseburger I’ve ever seen. Oh my God. Then that night at the Cheetah Club, Phil Newkirk. He is the startus businessman who either was or was not with the Asian businessmen and says to know me like, “Hey, come by for an audition tomorrow for the chorus line.” And she’s like, “Dad, Gina Garshan send you? ” And he’s like, “Huh? No, come on down. Come on down to audition. It’s your big break, kid. Get the final three, including Noami.” And then he has the moment where he’s like, “All right, everybody, show me your tits.” And all three of them were like, “What?” And he’s like, “Come on, show me your tits.” So they all do. He has to know me, what’s wrong with your nipples?

(01:42:30):

They’re not standing up. Play with them a little. Yeah,

Laci (01:42:33):

But he’s being weird about it, right? He’s not being instructional like, “Come on, tweak him or whatever you’re going to do. We need hard nipples.” He’s not being a matter of fact. Something that would actually, “All right guys, I know this might be awkward, but this is a topless show. We need to know that you’re comfortable being topless. Okay, great. We need extroverted nipples.” There’s a way to deliver, not play with him a little. You want me to do it?

Matt (01:42:54):

Because if you’re going to object to him speaking to you this way, you’re not going to be able to make it in the show at all.

Laci (01:43:00):

Because they expect sexual favors in the fucking show. Yeah. All of it is grooming.

Matt (01:43:06):

And as they’re dancing, he literally shouts, “Come on, attitude. Sell. Sell your bodies,” he literally says. And then when he tells her about how to make her nipples stand up, that’s when she runs away again. Yes.

Laci (01:43:20):

Because you are a whore and you’ll never be a dancer. You thought you were coming to be a dancer, you’re not. Put ice on your nipples, whore.

Matt (01:43:29):

And when she is confronted with that, she always runs away. Runs away from this guy, runs to the dressing room and Crystal Connors follows her in and is just like standing there all evily. And Naomi basically- You’ve got

Laci (01:43:42):

This for me, can you?

Matt (01:43:44):

And then Naomi says, “I hate you. ” And Crystal says, “I know. ” I know,

Laci (01:43:47):

Darling.

Matt (01:43:48):

So Naomi leaves the hotel and then runs into James. He’s just always, wherever you are, James is there to lecture you. You’re trying to work at the Stardust that’s even worse than the cheetah. It’s the same thing. And so don’t you understand they’re just parading and sailing selling sex. They’re just doing it in a more classic way.

Laci (01:44:02):

He’s projecting.

Matt (01:44:03):

But then this ends with them going on a ride in his convertible and eating cheeseburgers and end up at his place where he shows her a dance that he has written. He just needs three women to perform it with him here. I will show you how to do this dance. Watch me now. And they do this dance together that culminates with them basically dance fucking each other on a chair. On

Laci (01:44:22):

Her terms though, she finds him attractive. She thinks he’s respecting her in a way. And now she gets to, “I choose you for the fucking,” but she can’t because she’s on a period. And he checks.

Matt (01:44:33):

And he says- I got

Laci (01:44:34):

Towels.

Matt (01:44:34):

He does check and says, “Yeah, I’ve got towels and she’s leaving anyway.” She does everything fast. She’s like you. And when she even leaves his house, the taxi cab is pulling up and she runs to it like you have to run everywhere.

Laci (01:44:48):

She’s like, “Well good because she’s constantly in fight or flight.” That is why she’s like this. So you can fuck me when you love me, but I do love you. I love that. Yeah.

Matt (01:44:59):

And yeah, if a lady’s got … Listen, fellas, if a lady’s got her period, you just get some towels. That’s all you got to do.

Laci (01:45:05):

The first time you have sex with a man, you don’t want towels. So maybe just don’t ask for period sex on the first time.

Matt (01:45:13):

Oh, and he does do the, “Hey, you don’t fool me. I see you. ” What do you see?

Laci (01:45:17):

I see you running from something.

Matt (01:45:19):

You’re hiding from you. But Nomi gets home and gets the phone call. Actually, you did get the role. Congratulations. Nomi. Yay. You’re in the show. So goes to the Cheetah Club to quit. Give Al a piece of her mind, say her fond farewells to everyone as she leaves Al is like, “Hey, you’ll be back, but I’m not hiring you back. Not even if you give me a blowjob.” Because she never gave him a blowjob. And she goes to tell, she’s very excited to tell her contemporary in the dance world, James, arrives at his apartment at night and there’s a neon sign right outside of his apartment that says Jesus is coming soon. Pun on coming. But also Paul Verhoeven is obsessed with Jesus. Jesus is in all of his movies, he’s written a book about the historical Jesus. In his movie, Benedetta, there’s a flashback to Jesus engaging in a sword fight as a mounted night.

(01:46:05):

He loves Jesus, but he’s not a Christian. He loves the historical Jesus. All right. So she tells James, “I got it. I’m in the show.” And he’s like, “But the show is just a form of the corporate capital suppression.” He doesn’t want

Laci (01:46:17):

What she wants. He wants what he wants. And even worse, he’s fucking hope. He’s fucking a stripper.

Matt (01:46:22):

I thought we were working on this dance together and then inside James baby, who are you talking to? And Nomi’s like, “What the fuck?” Because he’s just- You

Laci (01:46:29):

And me, we ain’t got no ties.

Matt (01:46:31):

Because he’s done the exact same move with her that he’s done on another woman and it’s fair. He seems like he meant it with Nomi, but doesn’t mean it with other dancers like hope.

Laci (01:46:42):

Right. Agreed. But he’s only got so many tricks up his sleeve. He keeps getting fired the first day he starts to work.

Matt (01:46:49):

Yeah. She’s going to be in your dance too. And he’s like, she doesn’t have any talent, not like you. She goes to the office. Now she’s working. She’s in the professional world. She arrives for work in her Versailles dress, pronounces it Versailles and they don’t correct her. We’re meeting some of the people in this world. We have Gay, the name of the stage manager, her name is Gay, who onboards her about everything she’s going to need to do to stay on top of it. You think you got it made now that you got the job? Oh no, now the hard work begins. You can only eat brown rice and vegetables. Never go out on stage when you’re crying.

Laci (01:47:20):

Don’t go in the sun. We don’t want tan lines.

Matt (01:47:22):

Yeah. And if you’re smart, you’ll find a job and a man.

Laci (01:47:25):

After dancing.

Matt (01:47:28):

Like this job that she has found for herself, because she used to be a dancer, now she manages the dancers. And then Nomi has to go and give personal information to the payroll department and this is where- It’s like the first time

Laci (01:47:40):

She’s had a real job, that’s a thing? They

Matt (01:47:42):

Ask for

Laci (01:47:42):

Things.

Matt (01:47:43):

I know. But I think the ’90s was probably the beginning of the era where you couldn’t just arrive in a town and say like, “My name is Guy Incognito. Can I have a job, please?” Now you need everything. And your history follows you everywhere. Right. So then she runs into Phil, the entertainment director and Zach, Kyle McLaughlin. And Zach is being, “Hey, you dance fucked me, but I’m not going to be all weird to you. I’m going to be a nice gentleman. Congratulations on the job and that is a beautiful dress you are wearing.” And she’s like, “It’s a Versase and he is nice and is like, no, it’s pronounced Versace.”

Laci (01:48:14):

Right.

Matt (01:48:15):

I

Laci (01:48:15):

Don’t want to laugh at you later. And what’s interesting is Crystal’s not in this room whenever she says it the wrong way. And he’s with the other man guy, but not with her. Right. But later Crystal’s like, “It’s over across from Versailles.” So clearly these little bitchy people ran and told Crystal and made fun of her. Ran told Crystal and made fun of know me or it could have been the other two guys that did it. We don’t know who did it, but somebody

Matt (01:48:43):

Did. We know. I think we know.

Laci (01:48:45):

It’s a bitchy thing to do. What he did at least was try to put her in the know and

Matt (01:48:51):

I think

Laci (01:48:51):

It’s kind.

Matt (01:48:52):

So we see that there’s some rehearsals and I think Mason is the gay dance instructor. I thought it was raining. Mark on those pelves thrusts and she needs to … She’s got the raw material. She just needs some refining. But as he goes and tells Tony, the producer or the director, she’s got it. She’s got it. She’s got these moves. And then he’s like, “I wonder where she got those moves though.”

Laci (01:49:20):

Who cares? Say your fucking business. They got it. They don’t teach that in school. Got it.

Matt (01:49:26):

Because the implication being like she did a lot of sex work and that’s why she’s able to move like this.

Laci (01:49:31):

To fucking dance like a … Well, because they think the difference between her and the other girls that don’t burn are that she’s got this fierce sexuality behind everything and intensity. It’s like, that can be studied too, my friend.

Matt (01:49:46):

But we can use that and we can sell it, but let’s also, we’re going to look down upon it and we’re not going to acknowledge it like when we talk about it to the public, but we can gossip about it to each other.

Laci (01:49:57):

Right. It can’t be this cool asset that she has. It has to be this thing she should be ashamed of.

Matt (01:50:03):

So I mean, there’s a handful of times where the camera, the camera’s very locked in on Nomi’s perspective throughout the movie, not the camera. Just the point of view is always with Nomi, but occasionally the camera will then go to somebody else or linger after she leaves the scene and you get to hear what people think about her or you get an insight into the world that she does not get, including that- But

Laci (01:50:23):

Feels, right? She feels the judgment. She sees that women are pissed at her whenever she gets the understudy position and they think she fucked her way to the top. And she just exists in a hostile environment. Her very existence pisses people off.

Matt (01:50:41):

And if nothing else, because you didn’t go through the academy like we all did, you didn’t go through the normal channels.

Laci (01:50:47):

You don’t deserve to be here.

Matt (01:50:49):

So the getting ready for the show, it is all chaos. You literally have chimpanzees running around and women are, “You’re a fucking slut and I’ll kill you, you motherfucker.” Yelling at each other about how, you’re a bigger slut because you fucked the pizza guy. Oh yeah, well you fucked.

Laci (01:51:01):

The Mater Raider.

Matt (01:51:02):

The Meter Reader. But it’s all very, very exciting and it’s kind of exhilarating is like they all assemble at these stairs. They’re all about to climb up the stairs. But as Paul Veroven loves to do, simultaneously the glamor and the really grossness, if the glamor of show biz and then somebody’s like, “Careful guys, tons of monkey shit on stage.” And they’re distributing ice for everybody’s nipples. But nobody goes out there and does a great job. And again, everybody’s doing the exact same thing. We just picked one of them and said, “This is the star because that’s America. Everybody can’t be equal. We have to have one person who everybody has to aim for so that there’s just a massive amount of inequality.” Afterward, she goes back to the dressing room and there are flowers from Zach. Zach is Kyle McLaughlin. It just doesn’t feel right that this character’s name is Zach.

Laci (01:51:52):

Right. That is strange. It’s some kind of fucking joke. You mean because Zach Morris, right? Because Saved by the Bell?

Matt (01:51:59):

No, it just feels like- It doesn’t feel like something an adult should be named, especially an adult like that.

Laci (01:52:04):

Okay. It’s got to be an inside joke then. But I will point out whenever she’s … We picked her because she’s glamorous and very, very sexy whenever that scene happens for Crystal. She’s got this huge bouquet of flowers and she turns and they all go across Nomi’s face. And now Nomi for the first time in her life has got a giant bouquet of flowers. Now she can go blah, blah, blah in someone’s face.

Matt (01:52:28):

And literally has never received flowers at all before. Right. Pulls up in his big sports car and Nomi’s like, “Thanks for the flowers.” And she runs into James again. He’s like, “You’re a whore.You’re working in a horse industry and that guy over there. He’s a pimp.” He’s a pimp. He’s not a pimp. He is a pimp who works for the … James, shut up. So

Laci (01:52:44):

Jealous. Fuck off, James.

Matt (01:52:46):

So the next day Naomi arrives for work to work on her turns. You got to work on those turns and Crystal is waiting for her there. I volunteered to help train you, but I don’t feel like it. Let’s go get lunch. I feel like we got off on the wrong point. I feel

Laci (01:52:58):

A little turned inside out today myself, darling.

Matt (01:53:01):

They go eat at Spago in the fake outdoor mall. I just love this. That is a

Laci (01:53:04):

Beautiful mall though.

Matt (01:53:05):

Pretend outdoors. But they bond over the fact that they both ate dog food as kids. Literally, they liked to eat dog … Or maybe not literally liked it, but they ate dog food as kids. And then eat dog food is the metaphor for doing bullshit for your shitty boss, eating the shit that your boss gives you to get ahead.

Laci (01:53:23):

Okay, sure. I mean, but it’s also just like, hey, we both came from poverty and at one point or another had to eat dog food for whatever reason. It’s a crazy thing to have in common. And then right after they have that little moment, they toast with a chip. It’s not classy. It’s not their glasses of champagne. They are so alike.

(01:53:46):

And they do this shot over Nomi’s shoulder. So Crystal’s always to the left … I’m not battle left and right. Always to the right of … And then they reverse the shot and Nomi’s always to the left. And then after they kind of go into a more serious … The tone shifts again where they’re adversarial. Well, now Nomi’s on this side. And so the movie films it constantly showing you that they are equals. It’s just that’s why they’re always oscillating with how they feel about each other. And those two characters particularly are doing it constantly because they are just mirror images of each other.

Matt (01:54:24):

And instead of what you should do is like, “You are me. I’ll have your back. Let’s have each other’s back. We’ll be stronger together.” I know. “Oh, you’re just like me. I must destroy you. ” There

Laci (01:54:35):

Can be only one.

Matt (01:54:36):

Exactly. I mean, Crystal, she enjoys the fruits of her labor, enjoys the fine clothes, the champagne, the cocaine. She named herself after the champagne. Christy Lou Connors. Used to have dingy brown hair and little bitty tits. It’s amazing what paint and a surgeon can do, darling, because this whole city, it’s about artifice and reinvention. You can just go into a doctor and say, “Paint my hair.” And he will. A doctor paints

Laci (01:55:00):

There.

Matt (01:55:01):

Yes. And then Crystal compliments Nomi’s tits. He got nice looking tits. He likes showing them off. And Nomi says, “I liked it when I was … I didn’t like it when I was at the cheetah. It made me feel like a whore. You are a whore darling. Nomi does not react well to this. She never does. No, you are. We all are, darling. We take the cash. We cash the check. We show them what you want to see. Nobody says, maybe you’re a whore, but I’m not.

Laci (01:55:27):

” Yeah. She’s got a chip on her shoulder that Crystal will never really understand. You are as close as piers as Nomi’s going to find in this world, but you’re still not there and you’re still not ready to fight the way Nomi is.

Matt (01:55:40):

And so Crystal’s like vendetta against Nomi takes the form of, “I will get you to fucking realize you’re a whore.” I

Laci (01:55:47):

Also think she really wants to fuck her. I think she’s constantly trying to see, will she fuck me? Are you turned on by this? But I don’t think Nomi’s a lesbian. I don’t think she’s bi. So she just wants someone to care about her. And so I think she would dabble. I think she would.

Matt (01:56:04):

I think she would dabble. I think for Crystal, she is sexually attracted to her and also …

Laci (01:56:10):

Wants to dominate her.

Matt (01:56:11):

Wants to dominate her and that takes the … I see how sensitive you are about that. I’m going to use that to dominate you. I’m going to make you submit and admit you are a whore. But yeah, let’s go train in the dance. And she introduces their dancing by saying the best advice I ever got was if you’re on stage and someone’s in your way trying to get in the way of you while you’re trying to get to your spot, you step on them.

Laci (01:56:35):

And if you’re the last one standing, you get the

Matt (01:56:37):

Jab.That’s what it’s all about. I mean, really, they just need to unionize this workplace. That’s what they got to do. They’re dancing and then this turns into the hate fuck dancing that these dances so often do in this movie. And they say there’s no eroticism in this movie, but I think there are a couple erotic moments like this because it is two people dancing very sexily with each other, but this all concludes with-

Laci (01:57:00):

Right. It just never ends in a good place. So it makes you feel bad anyway.

Matt (01:57:06):

Which right here, she rips Nomi’s top off.

Laci (01:57:11):

She just brings her shirt down, shows her boobs, and then she kind of fondles her little bit, leans in and pretend she wants to kiss Nomi and Nomi and then says instead, “See, darling, you are a whore.” So it’s like she’s constantly tricking Nomi into thinking she cares about her. And Nomi gets more and more pissed for falling for it. Just like with the man that stole the briefcase, all she has in this world are her instincts. And there are certain people that keep getting around them and that’s dangerous. And we’ve seen it be dangerous for her over and over again. So now Crystal must die.

Matt (01:57:44):

It’s another night at the show. The show girls are getting ready for … Or you know what? It might not be night. They might do this six times a day. It’s the 11:30 in the morning show, but we got these two kids who are the children of one of the dancers, Julie, and they look like wholesome little kids. One of them is even holding a teddy bear as all these naked people are running around.

Laci (01:58:02):

They don’t like hearing the F word or curse words. They’re scandalized by it. They call her mommy. Mommy’s in a dominatrix outfit with her tits and her ass out, but the F word.

Matt (01:58:13):

Yeah.

Laci (01:58:13):

No, thank you.

Matt (01:58:14):

That makes them upset. I know Paul Verhoeven is, he’s very interested in casual nudity. In robocop and starship troopers, there are scenes of like all the cops who are both men and women are all showering together. Yeah. It’s like that’s American’s prudishness about nudity is very amusing to him. So I will exaggerate it by having everybody be naked here, but everybody treating it like it’s not a big deal. But the kids are being annoying. So Julie has a rival, Annie, and Annie’s like, “Tell your kids to shut the fuck up or I’m going to fucking kill them.” And these kids start crying, okay? Meanwhile, Phil, the sleazy entertainment director, offers no me a thousand dollars to just go do a boat show. Just represent the hotel at the boat show.

Laci (01:58:56):

And Molly leans in and says trying to tell her, “Look, I know some people who did it and you can tell Crystal’s in on it because Crystal’s like, Molly, I need you. ” And a couple of people, they didn’t … Molly, I said, “Come on. ” They didn’t like it. Molly.

Matt (01:59:13):

But does Molly actually know what happened or is she just as much as she knows?

Laci (01:59:17):

Well, I mean, if two girls come back from a gig where they got $1,000 for dancing in a boat and they seem fucking traumatized, yeah, I can think

Matt (01:59:23):

She- Oh, Molly, you got to be clear. Got to spell that out exactly.

Laci (01:59:27):

Maybe she doesn’t want to imply what Nomi is and isn’t okay with or shame it. If maybe this is my way of telling you there’s more to it than they are saying. And if you’re cool with that, do it.

Matt (01:59:37):

Nobi is very excited though. A thousand dollars. G Willicker’s just for going to a boat show. I can’t wait. And even that is embarrassing. Little Rube thinks $1,000 is a lot of money.

Laci (01:59:48):

Well, even more embarrassing, you’ve got the redhead who’s done it before, knows exactly what’s about to happen and is like, “Yeah, I’ll go. ” And she was sought out. Nomi was sought out because Chris People said to seek out Nomi. And the other one was sought out because she fucked the last time. So once you start being in that cycle, you don’t get to get out of it. They know you need the money. So just do it again. You already did it. What does it matter?

Matt (02:00:14):

Because

Laci (02:00:14):

Each time matters. But it’s not looked at that way.

Matt (02:00:20):

They tell her, “Yeah, there’s a great opportunity. Crystal recommended you. ” And she’s like, “Thanks for recommending me, Crystal. Just looking out for you, darling.” Well, then Nomi goes up to another of the dancers and is like, “Hey, have you ever done this boat show thing?”

Laci (02:00:34):

The other one that’s going, the Redhead.

Matt (02:00:36):

Oh, that’s the red. Okay.

Laci (02:00:37):

Yes. And she’s jaded and she doesn’t exactly … She’s like, “Did I like it? ” Yeah, I liked it. I mean, if Nomi really wanted to read through the lines here, she could understand what this redhead’s trying to say. This isn’t what you think it is and I don’t want to go do this, but I don’t want to do it alone either.

Matt (02:00:58):

But it’s also, this environment has fostered these … You’re all in competition with each other. Sure. And there are a billion people who would kill any of you to get where you are right now. So this is not an opportunity to be like, “I will look out for Nomi and advise her not to make the mistakes I have made.”

Laci (02:01:13):

Right.

Matt (02:01:13):

And

Laci (02:01:14):

Nomi has a weird circumstance where she came in with a best friend. She’s got Molly. No one else has a Molly. So she already feels like she’s being favored in a way that other people aren’t.

Matt (02:01:25):

Boat shows. I had to go to a lot of boat shows with my dad when I was a kid. Nothing more boring except for car shows. Car shows are more boring than boat shows. Just go to the super dope and look at a lot of boat. Oh, look at that boat.

Laci (02:01:38):

But that goes to the

Matt (02:01:39):

Woman. So Molly and Nikki are just dancing on a boat and people politely clap. The lawyers would judge, but thank you to the startles. Wow. And they’re like, “Wow, I can’t believe we got a thousand dollars for that. ” It wasn’t for that. Mr. Phil comes over with his friend and is like, “Hey, this is my friend, the businessman from Bangkok. He’s got-

Laci (02:02:02):

More importantly, he’s a high roller.

Matt (02:02:04):

One of our very high rollers. And great news. We’re taking you both out for dinner. Will we eat lobsters?”

Laci (02:02:09):

So Caesar is the thing that happens over and over again. You ever hear Caesar sing? There’s three different times in the movie. Every time someone mentions, “Have you seen Caesar sing?” Nomi’s face drops because she knows that someone that’s trying to distract her and something sexually bad is about to happen. And it happens all three times.

Matt (02:02:27):

When they said Caesars sing, I was like, “I’d like to see Mr. Caesar sing.” Figured that’s the name of a person. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Caesar Sing. You go see the man dressed as Caesar and- Yeah.

(02:02:38):

And then after that, we’ll go back to my place and we’ll sing and know me realizes what this is. I mean, this is literally sex trafficking and it is a thing that happens in show biz. And I just read in between the lines. I bet Paul Verhoeven was seeing this in Hollywood. People like Harvey Weinstein were doing it. People like Vince McMahon were doing it in wrestling as recently as a few years ago. And doing it to the actual talent, like to the actual actresses or in McMahon’s case to the women wrestlers and the women who worked in the office and everything.

Laci (02:03:08):

Kevin Spacey was doing it to a bunch of male people trying to get in the industry that need a leg up, need someone to introduce them into something are on the fringes of the industry and not quite in.

Matt (02:03:22):

Yeah.

Laci (02:03:22):

Those are the targets.

Matt (02:03:24):

And yeah, you being in here doesn’t protect you. And if you do do this, if you submit to my sex trafficking, my sexual assault, then basically I own you because I know that you-

Laci (02:03:34):

Right. You’re not going to rise above this. You’re useful.You’re now telling me you’re one of the girls that’ll do this. You’re getting none of the promises I gave you. You’re just going to get this.

Matt (02:03:43):

Nikki’s not happy about this, but Nomi’s like, “Fuck that. ” And runs away. Sheuts, “Not me. ” And Phil chases her and he’s like, “Be nice. You’re getting a thousand dollars for this. ” And she’s like, “Yeah, for this, like the boat show.” And he’s like, “Forget about it then.” And so later, Nomi goes to Kyle McLaughlin and he’s like, “Oh, he did what? Oh, that is … Oh, I have had it up to here with Phil. What a bad guy.” And he calls him over. Phil, listen, Mr., I mean, does a very impressive- He does. In front of Nomi. I’m on fucking Nomi’s, “Cut out this shit. You’re never going to do it to Noomi or anyone else again. And if you do, I’ll come after your pinching too, fucker.” And Nomi’s like, “Wow, I can fully trust Zach.”

Laci (02:04:28):

Right. And really think she’s found someone that’s got her back, someone to represent her. And then she pokes her head in to Crystal’s dressing room and was like, “Thanks for the boat show. Thanks for really … ” I know you just did that to me, but I just fucking flipped the script.

Matt (02:04:44):

And it’s like what she did was complain to HR and people, if you don’t know- Spucking

Laci (02:04:50):

Mirrors, smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors. Do you want to go off for a steak in my red car?

Matt (02:04:54):

But the job of HR is to make you think they’re on your side, but they represent the interests of the company. Of course.That’s why they’re there. And then this is another moment where the camera lingers on him and he calls up Phil and he’s like, “Hey, Phil, son of a bitch.” He’s stupid

Laci (02:05:05):

Asshole. Get your ass back up here.

Matt (02:05:07):

Yeah.

Laci (02:05:08):

Wait, I thought Phil was going to go sing. Was he not at least fucking Nikki? What the hell’s happening?

Matt (02:05:13):

Yeah. When is this?

Laci (02:05:14):

Right. Yeah.

Matt (02:05:16):

But yeah, they’re good cop, bad cop. They need both. One strategy will work on somebody.

Laci (02:05:23):

Well, you need one person to remain good so that the ruse can keep going. You don’t switch it. You just let other people do the bad thing and Kyle steps in, “Wait, Zach steps in. Hey, no, no.”

Matt (02:05:34):

Yeah, but they’re perfectly aligned. They’re working in pursuit of the exact same goal. And he says, “Some people just don’t get it, but don’t let this make you think poorly of the stardust.” Again, it’s why you need a union. Las Vegas is a good union town. These guys don’t have a union though. Before the show, know me. They’re all gathering. They’re going to go back out, do another show. We see more of the casual harassment like one of the-

Laci (02:06:05):

It’s the bride sequence. It’s my favorite part of their show. Sorry. Crystal comes out looking amazing in a reflective wedding dress.

Matt (02:06:12):

On stage, Julie, the one who has the kids who are yelled at by Annie, drops a bunch of marbles or pearls or whatever these are.

Laci (02:06:19):

Part of a costume.

Matt (02:06:21):

And Nomi sees them.

Laci (02:06:23):

And I guess Julie sees no only see it, but that part’s unclear. But from then on, they have a dirty camaraderie because I let you let Annie go down and you’re going to let me let Crystal go down.

Matt (02:06:35):

And when Annie goes down, because she’s being carried by this guy, Daryl, who slips on them-

Laci (02:06:39):

Really high up in the air. They’re all the way above his head and she slams down on the ground.

Matt (02:06:43):

It’s pretty gruesome, but everybody else on stage is just-

Laci (02:06:47):

Just keeps going. Yes. And that’s why the music is stuck on my head. Na, na, na, na. It’s someone’s happiest day. It’s the happiest day of her life. She’s a woman and she’s getting married. It’s her wedding day. When really what you’re doing is selling this woman do a fucking man where she’s going to go be miserable. So the real thing is Annie. That is real. This is what this woman’s day is. Not this thing that we’re selling you, this marketing of a wedding. I don’t know. It’s all just a metaphor inside of a metaphor.

Matt (02:07:15):

And afterward, they’re all treating her injury like it’s a death. It is an injury that she’s going to have to be hospitalized, leave the show, and her role probably will not be waiting for her when she gets back. And so who knows where her life goes after this.

Laci (02:07:28):

Or if she heals in a way that allows her to dance the way she needs to, just like with athletes, right? Anytime your body is your job, it’s so precarious.

Matt (02:07:37):

Nomi’s told like, “Hey, your mother’s here.” She’s like, “What? My mother?”

Laci (02:07:40):

Well, for your sake, I hope it’s not.

Matt (02:07:42):

Oh, it’s Henrietta and Al. And really they are her mom and dad in a way. And Al’s like, “Huh, you look like shit.” And Henrietta’s like, “Yeah, she looks better than a 10-inch dick.”

Laci (02:07:51):

She looks like she looks as good as a 10-inch dick and you know it.

Matt (02:07:55):

He says like, “Hey, I saw the show. You were good. Real good. Take care, good.”

Laci (02:08:00):

Must

Matt (02:08:00):

Be

Laci (02:08:00):

Weird not having anybody come on you.

Matt (02:08:02):

Yeah. But he delivers that line in a-

Laci (02:08:05):

Very serious.

Matt (02:08:06):

To him, that’s him being sweet. And it is filmed and treated as if he said an extremely sweet thing.

Laci (02:08:12):

Right.

Matt (02:08:13):

It’s

Laci (02:08:13):

Perfect.

Matt (02:08:14):

Put that line in your back pocket. I think it’s important. So Zach offers Nomi a ride home and they get into his car and he’s like, “Where do I take you? ” And she’s like, “Let’s go to your place.” They get to his gaudy fucking mansion, get naked, swim in the pool and pour champagne on each other and then have the insane floppy fish sex.

Laci (02:08:34):

But you said something so interesting, which was that she already shows people what she can do on a daily basis, particularly him. He’s already seen what she can do. Can she just lay down on a bed and have normal sex? No. It is the most performative fucking thing ever. It is so athletic. It’s exhausting. They immediately go to sleep. This at least makes sense. We’re 50 shades of gray. Why are they always so tired?

Matt (02:09:00):

But we’re in showbiz, this razzle dazzle. We’re going to be doing cocaine and champagne and dolphins. So of course we have to have sex like this. What are we going to watch Netflix?

Laci (02:09:10):

You don’t think though that she’s showing off for him?

Matt (02:09:12):

I do. Okay. I think that she is also

(02:09:15):

In the section of the movie is like, my dreams are coming true and is sort of like acting it out. But as they have the insane floppy fish sex that everybody makes fun of, and she arches her back backwards and gets into the path of the dolphin blow holes that are basically coming on her when Al just told her, “Hey, must be weird not having guys come on you now,” but she basically is metaphorically here. And the next morning, Zach tells her, “Hey, there’s an opening for Crystal’s understudy. Why don’t you go audition for it? ” So there’s three women auditioning.

Laci (02:09:51):

It’s Nikki, Julie, and Nomi. So people who’ve paid their dues and been in the show for a while, at least a year for Nikki, we know that. And now they’re all getting the same equal shot at being the second most powerful person in the show.

Matt (02:10:06):

Tony, the director’s like, “It has to be Julie. She has it down.” But Zach, Comic Laughlin’s like, “No, we can teach them to get it down. She doesn’t have any heat. She doesn’t have Crystal’s heat. Nobody has Crystal’s heat. Nomi has some heat though, and this makes Crystala perk up a little bit.” But

Laci (02:10:22):

We’ll never know because she really did want to have sex with him. You keep saying, or you are saying it’s because she wants what Crystal had or to get ahead, but I think she really likes Zach and has liked him the whole time. And for whatever it is, I don’t think she’s got a plan. I think she wanted to fuck him, could tell he wanted to fuck her and took that into account. And then when he in bed says, “Hey, there’s this. ” And she’s right to be suspicious like, “Okay, did we just transact? Because I didn’t mean to. I meant to do something I wanted to do on my own term, so you don’t owe me anything.” And then she just needs to be coy because it’s part of keeping herself safe. And he’s like, “Well, I need to see you again.” And she’s like, “Let’s see how it goes.” And that could just be a casual thing she’s saying.

(02:11:08):

And he goes, “The audition?” And it’s left right there. You don’t know. You don’t know what she means. She doesn’t know what she means. He doesn’t know. And it’s all ambiguous, but it is heavily implied, but I still don’t think that’s what it is. I think she’s the best one, but the other girls do think that she slept her way through it.

Matt (02:11:26):

Yeah. And they probably are right. They’re like, “Well, the other two are more refined, but we got to go. She’s the only one with the heat.” But again, it all looks kind of the same.

Laci (02:11:37):

But Zach has to fight for it, right? He’s the one that pushed for it. So he’s the one that temporarily gets her the place, but it’s not a stick because no one else wanted it.

Matt (02:11:46):

And if you think that it’s going to be like, “Oh God, is Crystal going to find out they fucked?” There’s no mystery. You fucked her didn’t you? Oh yeah? You’re jealous because you wanted to fuck her too. So it basically tells Nomi, “You got it. We’re going to go out and celebrate. We’ll have lobsters.” And have you ever seen Caesar sing? But over at her dressing table, there’s an invitation to a private dance by James Smith. So she goes-

Laci (02:12:11):

Up, goes the zipper. Don’t go the zipper.

Matt (02:12:16):

To the Crave Club to see the

Laci (02:12:18):

Dance.

Matt (02:12:19):

What a shot. James. People in this club not happy without it. They’re like, “Bring all the real dancers.”

Laci (02:12:25):

Yeah, but who’s the real dancers? Is this a sex club because when they put their music on, it’s just like, it just turns into a regular club. I’m so confused. And it’s the same

Matt (02:12:36):

Club that they were dancing in earlier. Which makes

Laci (02:12:39):

Sense why he’d have a connection at the crave club. But maybe there’s usually sexy dancers up there.

Matt (02:12:43):

I guess so. Who

Laci (02:12:44):

Just danced with the regular music? It’s not like a special performance. We all have to look. And what’s this dude doing here?

Matt (02:12:51):

So I mean, what we’re saying is Timothy Chalamet was right. People don’t care about ballet and stuff anymore. Nobody feels like watching this artsy New York dance. Look

Laci (02:12:58):

At this ballet. Look at the lady on the right doing art.

Matt (02:13:02):

Yeah, she’s doing art. So James goes offstage and nobody’s like, “Hey, it was great.” And he’s like, “Oh yeah, whatever.” People don’t want to see this. We heard

Laci (02:13:10):

Us. We suck.

Matt (02:13:12):

By the way, Penny and I are getting married like Inora, getting married.

Laci (02:13:17):

She’s pregnant. What am I going to do? Life sucks.

Matt (02:13:22):

But he’s going to get a job in her mother’s grocery store.

Laci (02:13:25):

I’m a student of T-shirts.

Matt (02:13:27):

Yes. Because he was lecturing her earlier about everything you say, Noemi, is like, life sucks, shit happens. It’s all stuff from T-shirts. I think that’s another thing of Paul Verhoevens is Americans are just parodying marketing slogans that they hear. And now he’s doing it too as this sort of

Laci (02:13:43):

Wisdom.

Matt (02:13:43):

I’ve got a

Laci (02:13:43):

Fucking degree from Julliard and I’m a student at T-shirts over. Yeah, we’re all just gum. And now just like that, that the position has been taken away. Well, do we know that yet? We just know that Crystal’s sitting on Nomi’s fucking … I can’t check. I don’t remember if it’s been taken away

Matt (02:14:04):

Yet. Nobody goes back to work and there’s a form letter. It’s like, unfortunately, the Stardust is unable to offer you the position at this time of understudy. And so she goes to Com McLaughlin, like, “What the fuck?” And he’s like, “Listen, Crystal didn’t want you and she’s a big star and she has lawyers. Sorry, you don’t matter that much. It’s not worth it. ” So Nomi goes back to the dressing room and now Crystal is seating in her spot of the dressing room and sort of holding corn.

Laci (02:14:26):

Her ass, her ass on her makeup, just holding court. And then my G-string popped and won’t you know what my pussy was under there.

Matt (02:14:33):

Yeah. Something she never does of talking to her coworkers. And they’re like, “Wow, Chris love hair.” And Crystal says to know me like, “Hey, I thought about it and why don’t you do my fingernails for me, darling?”

Laci (02:14:44):

Just back and forth, because someone does your nails is just below scum. And so it’s just this constant, “Yeah, but your nails aren’t as pretty as mine.” Yeah, but to have pretty nails that have to do nails for a living? No, thank you. That’s like saying my pipes aren’t as clean as my mansion as a plumbers. Do I want to be a plumber?

Matt (02:15:02):

So now it’s the motorcycle bondage show. And as always, the crowd is just blank and uninterested.

Laci (02:15:08):

These shows are elaborate and amazing though. There’s such a variety in them. I love it.

Matt (02:15:13):

But that’s why it’s so funny that it’s all for just the most bored people on earth who are like, when can we go back to gambling? And Nomi and Crystal are like hate fucking each other. Why

Laci (02:15:24):

Aren’t there any gambling machines inside of these people? Bing, bing, bing, bing.

Matt (02:15:28):

There are now.

Laci (02:15:30):

They’re hate fucking … Yeah, I know. They’ve got a little solo moment. Why would Nomi have this? There’s no reason why the new dancer would have this one moment with the star where they scissor each other. I know.

Matt (02:15:44):

It doesn’t make sense. This is not a rush. This doesn’t exist. I’m going to say this show doesn’t actually exist. And it concludes with Crystal pulling Nomi by the collar and says, “Come on, slave girl.” Pulls her off stage. And then so Noemi just pushes her down the stairs, just like that. And Molly sees it, sees.

Laci (02:16:03):

Molly sees Julie not see. That’s all that she sees. It’s all very ill. It’s plausible deniability, but Molly is like, “Don’t get sucked into it. ” And she does get sucked into

Matt (02:16:16):

It. Oh my God, Crystal’s down. What happened? Did someone push her?

Laci (02:16:20):

I’ll get back to you on that. I’ll look into that. That’s how good it is. It’s social security number good. She just fell.

Matt (02:16:28):

She just fell. Oh, she fell. Yeah.

Laci (02:16:29):

What happens with feet? Feet.

Matt (02:16:32):

She fell. And that’s that. And now Molly is being very cold to know me as the ambulance takes her away because she’s- Yeah,

Laci (02:16:39):

She’s just not being Nomi anymore.

Matt (02:16:41):

So the men have gathered to discuss the future of the show because Crystal’s sidelined for months, maybe a year. We got to shut the show down, but the casino guy’s like-

Laci (02:16:50):

People bring in Janet Jackson or Paul Abdul. They know how to dance like that. And two, why the fuck would they do this?

Matt (02:16:55):

No, he’s saying they would do a residency. They do their own thing. We have to run a show here. We need an attraction. Instead of doing- The

Laci (02:17:03):

Stardust has

Matt (02:17:04):

Never been dark. Instead of going a titty show, we’ll do Janet Jackson sings for hits. But the guy’s like, “The Star Dust has never been dark. It never will be. ” Suggests, well, we could bring in Paula Abdul or Janet Jackson is like, “We’re not paying those salaries.” Got

Laci (02:17:17):

It.

Matt (02:17:17):

That’s the point of this show is this show’s cheap.

Laci (02:17:19):

Right, right. Even though there’s 50 dancers, it’s still less than one Paul

Matt (02:17:24):

Abdul. Oh, yes, absolutely. And they’re like, “But Crystal Connors is a star. We can’t just replace her.” And so Kyle McLaughlin’s like, “You know what then?”

Laci (02:17:32):

Do what we do in Vegas. We gamble.

Matt (02:17:35):

Now we cut ahead. Naomi’s the star of the show.

Laci (02:17:38):

In win, we win with Naomi because she’s fucking glamorous and very, very sexy. And then you … The most beautiful girl in the … It’s Caesar. Caesar’s fucking singing to her after this. The most magical moment. She’s got flowers. He’s telling her she’s beautiful. Fucking Caesar. Where did you come from? Why are you here? Your friend’s about to get brutally raped. Caesar? Someone killed this guy.

Matt (02:18:06):

And Verhoeven shoots … When we see her as the star of the show, she is being shot like she’s a star. But again, all these people are exactly the same. The show just needs someone to point to and say, “That’s the star of the show. Know me, Malone.” Everybody’s- Lost

Laci (02:18:19):

Glitter in

Matt (02:18:19):

Her

Laci (02:18:19):

Hair. She does have a lot of glitter in her hair.

Matt (02:18:21):

And so they do the same press availability and the guy repeats the exact same lines.

Laci (02:18:26):

Same billboard, same everything, same party, same

Matt (02:18:29):

Name

Laci (02:18:30):

In firecracker lights.

Matt (02:18:31):

But with a difference, Nomi’s boobs are out, which crystals were not when she did the press availability. Was in a

Laci (02:18:39):

Costume, but not that one.

Matt (02:18:41):

Yeah. But yeah, Noemi’s boobs are just out right there as these polite reporters and stuff are standing right there.

Laci (02:18:46):

She’s in a bodysuit.

Matt (02:18:47):

Yes, I know, but you can see her tits fully out.

Laci (02:18:50):

Yeah, that’s true.

Matt (02:18:51):

It’s just like the marketing machine is such that we can just tell people, yeah, this is a star and everybody’s just going to be like, “Oh yeah, she’s a star.” I get

Laci (02:18:58):

It. Yeah. We’ll have Andrew Carver come to your show because you’ve really made it big. He’s going to immediately tell you that he likes your ass and wants to fuck you. Is that the kind of guest you want? Do you think your peers now?

Matt (02:19:10):

I mean, you can see this happening in marketing all the time. On the Doughboys podcast, they were just talking about how suddenly Dubai chocolate is everywhere else. Yes,

Laci (02:19:19):

It’s everywhere. It’s a Panera bread. I’m like, “Why is this Dubai chocolate cookie here?”

Matt (02:19:22):

And it’s like, well, it’s because the Sovereign Wealth Fund of the Emirate of Dubai said, “We’re going to create a chocolate and sell it everywhere and act like it’s always been a thing.”

Laci (02:19:31):

And

Matt (02:19:31):

This happened all the time.

Laci (02:19:33):

Yes.

Matt (02:19:33):

And most people are just going to be like, “Oh yeah,

Laci (02:19:35):

Dubai.” With pistachios with wonderful, the evil fucking company that makes pistachios, when people in America just didn’t eat them, that wasn’t a thing. And then they became this decadent, expensive nut activity. And meanwhile, the wonderful corporation is taking up a third of the water in California, causing fires.

Matt (02:19:58):

So you could do the traditional marketing of like, “We’re going to convince people this is a worthwhile product, or this person’s going to work her way up and we’ll convince people you like her and then she’s a star.” Or we’ll just tell you fully formed, “You love these pistachios. You love them. You love Dubai chocolate. You love Nomi Malone. You love Steven Segal because that is what happened with Steven Segal.” We need

Laci (02:20:15):

To talk about him

Matt (02:20:16):

One day then. Just appeared in a movie one day because an executive, he was an executive’s karate trainer. I

Laci (02:20:21):

Have every one of his movies on accident.

Matt (02:20:23):

And he has equality, but they made him a star by just saying Steven Segal is out for justice.

(02:20:30):

And everybody’s like, “I guess that’s Steven Segal. Okay. He’s a star.” The casino owner is now talking to the press gaggle and he’s like, “We could have gotten anybody to come to the start us. Paula Abdul, Janet Jackson. Janet Jackson. But we wanted Nomi Malone.” And so they’re having a party at the Paradiso. And if this is Dante’s divine comedy, this is Paradise. She’s ascended to Paradise, although it’s really more like hell. But at the Paradiso, Andrew Carver is going to be there. And Molly and Nomi have made up. She’s like, “Okay, yeah, I’ll come to your big party. It’s your big night.” And Molly arrives and is excited to meet Andrew Carver. There’s the moment with Julie who’s protected know me, said, “Oh no, Nomi didn’t push Crystal.” And Julie also knows how the game is played. This is also an opportunity for me to move up.

(02:21:19):

I put

Laci (02:21:19):

You in the back pocket, right? Hey, maybe you’ll think of me for understudy. Yeah, I’ll see what I can do. As soon as you got power, you owe a favor. As soon as you got power, you owe a favor.

Matt (02:21:29):

Right. Yep. Andrew Carver arrives. The movie’s done a good job of building … I mean, even within the own movie, Andrew Carver it, you know Andrew Carver, he’s a big star. But he’s just like this washed up guy who now has to do a Vegas

Laci (02:21:39):

Residency. I find the whole time I’m like, is he like Michael Bolton? I guess- Michael Bolton. Because his song is very like light rock and we dance into the wind.

Matt (02:21:50):

But the second you see him like this fucking comeback, look at him. He’s

Laci (02:21:53):

Wearing

Matt (02:21:53):

A

Laci (02:21:54):

Crushed velvet jacket.

Matt (02:21:56):

Pulls Zach aside because they’re all broke friends. He’s like, “Why don’t you fuck fucking know me? ” And he’s like, “You don’t want to know. “

Laci (02:22:01):

Fucking she’s a whore.

Matt (02:22:03):

So Noemi says to Andrew Carver, “Hey, I’m a fan of your songs.” And he’s like, “Oh yeah, I like your ass. Call me.

Laci (02:22:09):

” I left piece of shit.

Matt (02:22:11):

So they introduced him to Molly and he’s like, “Oh, Molly, you’re a fan of mine? Let’s go get a drink.” And it’s like Molly also is now living this showbiz fantasy. I’ve been plucked. I’m going to- That’s

Laci (02:22:21):

What I thought. Right. It’s finally happening. I haven’t had sex in six months because I’ve been studying for my finals so I can become a whatever. And I get to break my sex slump with Andrew Carver.

Matt (02:22:35):

And instead it is the most violent, brutal, sexual violence, sexual assault.

Laci (02:22:40):

Since girl the dragon tattoo.

Matt (02:22:42):

That you can imagine. And there’s three of them and he has his two hired goons.

Laci (02:22:46):

He breaks her nose immediately and you know it’s broken and he’s licking her face with so much spit in his mouth. She’s literally just being spit all over. It’s so fucking disgusting. And

Matt (02:22:59):

They’re cutting between like this and then the glamor of the ballroom downstairs.

Laci (02:23:04):

The fantasy that Nomi is still experiencing.

Matt (02:23:08):

Then Molly just like stumbles bloodied down the stairs.

Laci (02:23:11):

Crotchblood

Matt (02:23:12):

So we’re fun. And so they have to take her to the hospital where she has a broken nose and vaginal tears.

Laci (02:23:16):

And is in shock.

Matt (02:23:18):

And Nomi and Zach are there and Zach gets pulled away on casino business and Nomi follows him and is like, “We’re going to call the police, right?” And he’s like, “No, we’re not going to call the police. And by the way, I was just given a file on

Laci (02:23:29):

You. ” Solicitation slap. Solicitation. She’s crying. She’s so embarrassed. She’s so humiliated and he’s beating her with a folder. She did it to him. She did it because she loved it. Oh, you were just some kid. Your dad killed your mom, then killed himself. How could you? And then you were an orphan. You ran away because foster care was horrible. How could you? And then you did the only thing you could. You fucked strangers and you got arrested for it. How could you bolley your piece of shit?

Matt (02:23:57):

Her name is literally Polly Anne Castello and included in the list of things you’ve done. Possession of crack cocaine.

Laci (02:24:05):

Way to go. How could you?

Matt (02:24:06):

Well, the whole thing with crack is like we’re taking-

Laci (02:24:09):

It’s just coke. Right. It’s poor man’s crack. Poor man’s coke.

Matt (02:24:13):

This thing that we’ve seen all these rich people do throughout the movie. But if you branded it as crack, that’s the thing that criminals do.

Laci (02:24:18):

It comes in a rock. You got to break it up.

Matt (02:24:20):

You had your future pretty well mapped out for yourself. I did what I had to do.

Laci (02:24:24):

Right. Why’d you quit? He’s so callous. He so doesn’t get it. He doesn’t understand any of it.

Matt (02:24:31):

You’re going to be a big star, Nomi.

Laci (02:24:33):

And she’s crying.

Matt (02:24:34):

Your face is going to be on billboards. You’re going to make a lot of money.

Laci (02:24:36):

He’s got

Matt (02:24:37):

Her by the

Laci (02:24:37):

Neck.

Matt (02:24:39):

You’re going to make a lot of money for the stardust.

Laci (02:24:42):

Right. Basically now you’re mine, bitch, because I just found out who you are and you’re never going to work anywhere else. So you’re going to work here, you’re going to get it for your old pay and it’s going to look really glamorous, but it’s going to be slavery. And by the way, since I know this about you, I’m going to keep holding it over for you for the rest of your life. What’d you charge? $50. You got low self-esteem, baby. You’re a phenomenal fuck. And then she spits in his face and he literally believes what he says. “I was paying you a compliment. Oh, these are the compliments. You just whispered in my ear. I could fall in love with you. And then this happens and now I’m a great fuck. I should charge more as a child prostitute. That’s my big compliment from you.

(02:25:24):

Zach.

Matt (02:25:27):

“And as far as Andrew Carver, so are we going to turn him into the police? He’s like, ” No, no.

Laci (02:25:33):

“He’s part of a team.

Matt (02:25:35):

He’ll give us an NDA settlement to Molly. She’ll be able to open a dress store. But you got to understand, he might do a residency at the Stardust in the future. Even in there, he might one day, years from now, want to work at our casino. And then he says that the key line of the whole movie, he’s part of a team. You are too. And that’s why she makes the decision she’s going to make. There’s things I’m willing to do. I’m willing to fuck over people career-wise. I’m willing to let people get hurt and injured and stuff.

Laci (02:26:03):

Who are in the game. That’s why she can’t do it for Molly.

Matt (02:26:06):

But to help facilitate the sexual violence, I’m not …

Laci (02:26:10):

But it’s like a person in the mafia or in Breaking Bad. It’s like there are people who are in this game and there are people who aren’t. And Molly is not. And she’s willing to go tit for tat with somebody who can defend themselves, but now it’s on her to defend someone defenseless.

Matt (02:26:27):

She wouldn’t broker it happening to anybody in the show either to let what happened to Molly happen to anybody. Probably not. And the whole thing with this is because of her background, because of where she comes from and her experience, because she is so emotionally reactive, anybody else, any of those dancers who went to Dancing Academy would not be willing to throw away their life to do the right thing and to understand what the right thing is, which is this is the only thing that’s going to help, which is fucking avenging violence, which she does paints herself up to look like a hooker and calls him up and is like, ” Hey, remember you said you like my ass. Want Moi to come fuck you?

Laci (02:27:05):

“You know that my friend is such a good friend that I introduced you to Molly. Then she staggered down fucking dramatically in front of everyone and horrifically raped by you. And no, it’s not a coincidence I’m calling you the next day. Fucking moron.

Matt (02:27:20):

She goes up to his hotel room and he’s by himself. He’s going to treat her a little better than he treated her Molly because she’s in a little bit of higher of a position. Well, Zach

Laci (02:27:27):

Seems to like her.

Matt (02:27:29):

Starts doing stripper stuff and climbs on top of him. And he’s like, ” Wow, I love this stripper prostitute I’ve hired. “And she’s like, ” Oh yeah, you’ll like this? “And she pulls out the switchblade, holds it up to his neck and says,” If you make any fucking noise, I will kill you. “And he’s like, ” Okay. “And then she kicks the fucking shit out of him. It rules. Paul Verhoeven says the BerVerhoeven is the best ever at violence. You get to see some good just blood squirting everywhere.

Laci (02:27:54):

And just her face, that intensity really works here especially.

Matt (02:27:58):

It aims on a closeup- Fuck her.

Laci (02:27:59):

Fuck you, fuck her. Fuck off.

Matt (02:28:01):

Well, I love that because she’s just shouting,” Fuck, fucking, fuck her, fuck. “On her face, she’s got a Betty Davis old school Hollywood movie star, evil smiling rules. Goes to the hospital to bring Molly her teddy bear and say like, ” Hey, I kicked the kid out shit out of Andrew Carver. I love you goodbye. “And then goes over to Crystal and they sort of have like a, ” Hey, no hard feelings. How do you think I got my role? I had to push over some fucker too. “Reminds her of the advice that she gave her. “Remember, you got to be the only one left standing and then they’ll hire you. ” She’s like, “Well, you’re not going to turn me in for pushing you down.” And she said, “No, because I got a big settlement.”

Laci (02:28:39):

And she’s like, “And I needed a rest. I haven’t had a day off in eight years.”

Matt (02:28:42):

Because

Laci (02:28:42):

That’s the whole thing. Once you arrive, now you’re there. She was just as much a slave girl as anybody else. Crystal O’Connor’s finally got the thing she wanted, but that just meant work hard, work hard, work hard, work hard, don’t miss a day, don’t miss a day. It’s just interesting. I needed the break.

Matt (02:28:57):

It’s kind of like us with podcasting or I mean, I’m sure that there’s plenty of people who think I can do OnlyFans. I only to find out … Imagine the fucking work you have to put into that and be like, “I’ve got two subscribers. This is insane.”

Laci (02:29:12):

Now I really need to pump out the pictures and they’re already asking for butthole stuff. I only have one butt hole.

Matt (02:29:19):

Yeah. There’s always someone younger and hungrier coming down the stairs after you, grateful for the time off anyway. Aren’t she going to give me a big kiss darling? And she does. But this is the whole thing, Chris, that’s the difference is Nomi’s not willing to be a part of the game if the game involves forgiving the kind of insane violence.

Laci (02:29:38):

It’s the only real control and luxury she has.

Matt (02:29:44):

But yeah, she puts on the cowboy hat. She’s the man with no name. She’s Clint Eastwood. She’s going from town to town, like the man with no name, like wandering the deserts, wandering these frontier towns, just doing justice. And maybe there’ll be a TV show where she just goes from town to town, be Meeting people for sex crimes, that’d be good. Get picked up by the hitchhiker. Sexifad.

Laci (02:30:04):

So justified.

Matt (02:30:05):

Yeah. Hey, again, if Hollywood worked, we’d have-

Laci (02:30:08):

We’d have something.

Matt (02:30:10):

Hitchhikes and gets picked up by the same Elvis guy who’s been in his own movie and he’s like, “Oh fuck, it’s you, but these guys, they have something.”

Laci (02:30:17):

They’ll be fine. The car swerves and that’s how you know they’re right on the same level again.

Matt (02:30:22):

Driving west. First pan over a billboard of Nomi Malone in Goddess and then Los Angeles, 280 miles. Yep. That’s what it’s been about. Sex advice, sex month comes to a close. Final sex advice. Here are the questions. We’re leaving behind the anxious people who write into slate, now just actual people on Reddit, looking for genuine advice. This is from R/sex advice. All right, this first one here, pillow talk, turned into fun sex, but I’m unsure how serious the talk was. Me, 24-year-old male and my 24-year-old female girlfriend recently found ourselves cuddling in bed, talking about our kinks. When I somewhat nervously and excitedly mentioned how I’d love to do a couple swaps so we can show off to another couple and I’ll have a good time. This isn’t the first time I’ve mentioned this, but this time round, she was a lot more on board with the discussion and heard me out when I said she’d look great getting spitroasted.

(02:31:21):

At the end of our talk, she says, “I’m so horny, let’s fuck,” and went straight into it. Is this a good sign that she’s actually into it or is it just the thought of it?

Laci (02:31:30):

Wow, okay. This depends on how big of a pick me she is. And if she isn’t one, if there’s no other signs of her just kind of going with the flow and, “Oh, I think that’s cool. Yeah, no, I’m cool, girl. I like that. That’s cool.” I don’t think she’d even laugh at the idea or play into it and then say she was horny if she didn’t mean it. All of that would be very misleading. I can tell you from a person who would not like to couple swap, if you brought it up, I would be so upset. I mean, to me, that would be equal to cheating because I don’t want you with another person. I don’t want you to want me with another person. So if you’re open to that conversation, even if it is just a recent relationship, either you’re monogamous or you’re not.

Matt (02:32:18):

All signs point to it’s looking good for you, sir, that she seems like she’s into it.

Laci (02:32:24):

Yeah. Bare minimum. She’s opened the door to you asking a clarifying question.

Matt (02:32:28):

And it could really be … Hey, babe, you said that were you just joking around or is this actually something you’d like? And you’re allowed to ask that question. Absolutely. And it’s not like she’d be like. But I could certainly … At first, I thought I couldn’t see Laci and I joking about something. It could seem so extreme that there’s no universe where we’re being serious about

Laci (02:32:52):

It. But you’ve brought it up before and I feel like that kind of question gets my cackles up because I come from a time when every guy I’ve ever dated felt it appropriate to hint he wanted a threesome. And it was never guy guy. And this is like every guy until you has made that joke. And I’ve made it very clear that’s not funny nor going to happen because that’s all the good shit for you and then it’s a terrible memory for me. It’s not like I’d get to choose or anything.

Matt (02:33:25):

Them being so young, I mean 24.

Laci (02:33:28):

This is

Matt (02:33:29):

Something

Laci (02:33:29):

I’ve felt ever since being in relationships. I’ve known my whole life, I’m not an open relationship person where I have knowledge of a … Okay, it’s our kid who’s always thought like, “Open relationships make sense.” I know,

Matt (02:33:44):

But I’m saying, I think that you’re still kind of figuring things out at that age and I could see … I’m now saying I can see her maybe thinking this is so extreme that of course I’m joking. And so the thing is you’re just going to have to talk. Yeah.

Laci (02:34:02):

The bottom line is she opened the door enough for you to get to ask a clarifying

Matt (02:34:05):

Question. So I’m backtracking on when I said like, “Oh yeah, she wants it definitely.” Because Laci would never, like you just said, if I brought up something and you were acting like you were into it-

Laci (02:34:16):

I would shut you. Fuck down if you brought this up and we would not be having sex right after. That heavily implies she thinks it’s fun.

Matt (02:34:23):

Yeah. So you’re just going to have to talk about it and good luck to you, fella. All right. How do I ask my boyfriend to use a vibrator without hurting his feelings? I’ve heard variations of this question on other podcasts. Sure.

(02:34:35):

I really love my boyfriend and I feel safe, comfortable, and happy with him. We’ve been together about six months and everything between us is really good, which is why I want to handle this in the best way possible. The only thing is I need clit stimulation to finish and sometimes it’s hard to guide him there without it turning into a halt. Wait, no, no there situation or kind of ruining the moment. I’ve been thinking about bringing one of my toys into the bedroom, but I’m a bit nervous about how to approach it without making things awkward. I have a tiny, quiet whisper bullet and I feel like it could actually make things more fun for both of us instead of awkward. I really don’t want him to feel like he’s not enough or like I’m replacing him. It’s more that I want us to explore together, make things feel better.

(02:35:10):

Has anyone had this conversation before? How did you bring it up in a way that felt natural and positive instead of awkward or hurtful? I was trying to wonder, if you and I were in our early 20s and you brought this up, I wonder how I would react.

Laci (02:35:23):

Okay. I’ll tell you how you react. There’s no way there’s a sexual relationship with you unless you were a completely different person before I met you where you’re not making sure the woman gets off. That it’s always been your thing. In fact, it kind of aggravated me at the beginning that there was no casual sex. It was just like, “No, we’re both going to do this. ” And now I completely appreciate it, obviously, but-

Matt (02:35:43):

It’s like a drill sergeant. Yeah.

Laci (02:35:45):

Well, I didn’t even know that was a thing. I didn’t even know there was a sex life where you could be balanced in how many orgasms people are having. It never crossed my mind because my ratio is like one to five, I guess, in any other capacity.

Matt (02:35:57):

Well, me neither, that’s just how attractive I found her.

Laci (02:35:59):

Oh, okay. Well, here’s what I’m saying. Six months and he doesn’t know you haven’t had an orgasm, then fuck him. But six months and you’ve been faking it or you faked it a couple times or you’re doing like a, “Well, that was still really fun,” or something like that. There’s this book called Come As You Are, and it helps people figure this stuff out. It’s a easy way of reading about how there’s different ways people get off and that it’s okay to mix them around and do different things. And it’s not a put down on either of you, neither of you are broken. And if you love your partner, you want them to have an orgasm too. So introduce that book. Or if he’s put off by you wanting to get off just as much as he is, that is an immaturity issue and it’s not her issue.

Matt (02:36:51):

There is a bad way that unfortunately I think a young men could predictably respond to that, which is like, “I’m not enough or can’t you just let me work on this till I get it right?” I mean,

Laci (02:37:02):

The answer’s yes there too though, right? She should be open to … Yeah, not there. I mean, if he thinks he can do it with his mouth and he’s trying to do it, let him get good at it. But if he gets tired, you don’t finish, then out comes the fucking toy because a woman can get frustrated too, right? If he’s giving up and you’re both just laying there and he’s already had his orgasm, dude, fire that thing up.

Matt (02:37:28):

Yeah. I think that a way to sell it is like, look, this can be a lot of fun and sex toys are a lot of fun. Six months is probably too long to have waited to …

Laci (02:37:37):

Well, not too long to have waited. It just, again, depends on how she’s been selling it. She’s been doing something to make him okay with six months. And if he’s just okay with her not having an organism for six months, he’s not right. And if she’s been letting him think that it’s been better than it has, then it’s on her to let him down gently.

Matt (02:38:02):

All right. Now, if you want to keep lying, here’s how you lie. Gradually, over the next month, if you’ve been faking orgasms, ladies, listen up if you’ve been faking your orgasms. What you need to do is you need to start taking longer and longer until you reach your fake orgasm. And then eventually you need to sit him down at the kitchen table and say, “Brett, I don’t know. I’m just so in my head lately. I’m not able to achieve climax even on my own. It takes hours and hours.” In the interest of speeding things along, I would like to introduce my whisper bullet.

Laci (02:38:34):

On my own, it takes hours and upstairs.

Matt (02:38:36):

Yeah, this is a lie.

Laci (02:38:38):

It doesn’t make sense. He

Matt (02:38:39):

Doesn’t know that.

Laci (02:38:40):

It doesn’t make sense. You could even say, “Even on my own, it takes 20 to 30 minutes.” Fine. That’s a long time for anyone to use their tongue, but it’s at least a little bit fucking believable. No one’s in their …

Matt (02:38:53):

All right, you’re focusing on the wrong thing. How about the brilliance of my scheme?

Laci (02:38:57):

I like what you said and everything was super believable until you showed how you don’t understand a woman’s masturbation. It is really

Matt (02:39:04):

One of lifetimes. Would you

Laci (02:39:06):

Work on yourself for an hour to two hours to come? Would you do that with your own hand?

Matt (02:39:11):

I’m on antidepressants, so yeah. Would you

Laci (02:39:13):

Do it? An hour to two hours, you would work on yourself manually.

Matt (02:39:20):

I don’t want to … I’ll tell you what happens. I’ll tell you what’s happened. And again, antidepressants and I’m aging and you just get this sad little dick.

Laci (02:39:33):

Okay.

Matt (02:39:34):

And you notice how much time you’ve invested in this and you’re like, “My God.” And then sunk cost, fallacy. I need to keep going. And yeah, you can easily lose an hour to this sort of thing. You’re lucky. You’re lucky, Laci. You got a body that works. I don’t. I’m all fucked up.

Laci (02:39:52):

Take testosterone or something. Take some tea,

Matt (02:39:56):

Get some

Laci (02:39:56):

Tea. You’re like, what do I …

Matt (02:40:02):

No, it’s truly, it is a combination of antidepressants which do- I

Laci (02:40:06):

Hear you.

Matt (02:40:06):

… do make the dick work less good, especially the older you get and just some factors that-

Laci (02:40:12):

It works good for

Matt (02:40:13):

Me. Yes, I know. For sex. For sex, I’m just finding weeks and weeks will go by and I’ll be like, “Boy, I have not had the urge. It has never even occurred to me. “

Laci (02:40:24):

You can just let that be true and that’s not sad.

Matt (02:40:27):

There is something sad about it though. It’s like, does my lust for life gone? Oh,

Laci (02:40:31):

Then you probably shouldn’t also be giving into this. If your body’s telling you you’re needed less right now, just right now, for whatever reason, that’s not sad. That’s just the ebb and flow of life. You’re giving into marketing.

Matt (02:40:45):

Oh, you’re right. You’re right. Dick’s being watching too. So I think we figured that one out.

Laci (02:40:48):

Yeah.

Matt (02:40:48):

Okay. Talk to her is our advice. Or talk to him. It doesn’t matter.

Laci (02:40:53):

We don’t know.

Matt (02:40:53):

All right. Finally, this is titled, I’m not trying to be mean or shallow. Just answer my question, please. So I met a girl online. She goes to my college. Same major. That is so important. You have to have the same major if you want. Are you

Laci (02:41:06):

Adding this or is

Matt (02:41:07):

He saying this? This is my own thing. Yeah. You have to both be majoring in the same thing. She’s super kind. Really? Laci, how often are we bringing up our majors? All the time, right? She’s super kind, really attracted to me, tells me all the time. She’ll always text back or text me first even.

Laci (02:41:24):

Wow.

Matt (02:41:24):

Something very few girls do.

Laci (02:41:26):

What?

Matt (02:41:28):

She’s very open about her sexual desires, kinks and interests she wants to explore and try with me. She has a cute body, but I’m not exactly attracted to her face. I’ve only seen a few photos. Some are cute/pretty. Some just aren’t for me. Why?

Laci (02:41:40):

You’ve seen her in real life though,

Matt (02:41:41):

Right? He’s not met her yet. Well,

Laci (02:41:43):

But they go

Matt (02:41:44):

To

Laci (02:41:44):

College.

Matt (02:41:45):

I met a girl online, so they met online. Boy, this is sad. Oh. It’s just sad about the state of humanity. We go to the same college. We didn’t meet at college. We just met online. Okay. We’re hanging out Thursday and promised no sex, but we may try it the second or third time. I’m a virgin and she’s completely okay with that. She wants to explore with me. Try stuff. Please meet all this great stuff. Another factor is I really want to lose my virginity. It’s often on my mind. And I have surgery in June, which will put me out of … He’s just trying to brag. Which will put me out of activity for six or maybe more weeks. So in the end with all this info, do you think I should have sex with her? I’m kind of leaning toward yes, but not sure.

(02:42:23):

So want some opinions.

Laci (02:42:25):

I

Matt (02:42:25):

Think

Laci (02:42:25):

You have no idea what you can and will be attracted to. I think it’s going to be … Dude, talking to someone online and then being face to face, if your conversation is flowing, you guys are laughing. She doesn’t have bad breath. You can get into it, but she’s really off putting and you guys are not having a rapport in person. It’ll take care of itself and you won’t have sex.

Matt (02:42:50):

This is like-

Laci (02:42:50):

Either it’ll be a nice date or it won’t, sir.

Matt (02:42:53):

Yeah. This is like, I’m worried about where I’m going to keep my yacht and the millages I’ll have to pay at the yacht place when I don’t have a job and don’t have any money.

Laci (02:43:01):

Park my car at the Grammy’s.

Matt (02:43:03):

Right. First things first, fella.

Laci (02:43:06):

Learn how to play a guitar.

Matt (02:43:08):

How is this interaction going to go? And like Laci just said, it will take care of itself.

Laci (02:43:14):

You do not use her to get rid of your virginity. You don’t do that. And you’re honest with her in that, “Hey, I really like you, but I want to be your friend. I’m not ready. Whatever.” Do not string her along. That’s the most important thing. You’ll be honest. Sounds like you guys have been honest so far. Keep doing that. And if you’re not lying to her just to get your virginity taken away, you remain a moral person.

Matt (02:43:39):

I guess the final thing is this fixation on virginity and the losing of virginity. Hey, there’s not that much of a difference between being a virgin and not being a virgin. So don’t be that worried about it. Be worried about being with somebody you like who you can have lots of sex with.

Laci (02:43:56):

Be worried about being a good person to the people that are in your life and eventually you’ll end up dating that person and that person will know that you’re good. And then that relationship will keep going and you’ll have good sex. Just don’t be a dick. If the person’s not right for you, then you kindly escort them out of your life and wait for the right person.

Matt (02:44:18):

Yeah.

Laci (02:44:19):

Do not use anyone for anything ever.

Matt (02:44:22):

Otherwise, be open to meeting people. I don’t know how people do it. I don’t know how young people meet people.

Laci (02:44:29):

And you don’t have a type. I know you think you do, but you’re going to be attracted to the person that just has enough of the things that you realize you need. You don’t even know what they are yet. Some of them will be really obvious and other things are not. So don’t get hung up on, “That picture isn’t really doing it for me. ” I think the pussy will, okay?

Matt (02:44:52):

I know. It’s preparing all of these things that are all going to be totally out the window once you are actually meeting people and interacting with them in the real physical world. You’re not going to be thinking about any of this stuff.

Laci (02:45:02):

So it’s not COVID anymore. So what are you doing?

Matt (02:45:05):

So I feel like this was much more real sex advice than we gave on the previous episodes. I was like, “My girlfriend wants to pee on Mary.” This is a

Laci (02:45:12):

Harder question.

Matt (02:45:12):

Then Laci’s like, “Do it. ” All right. All right. Final thoughts and star ratings for showgirls. Do you want to go first?

Laci (02:45:40):

Show girls is a five out of five since I saw it when I was 10 and it still is. It itches my brain. It’s a car wreck I can’t look away from. It’s bad and good at the same time. Its badness makes it good and its goodness makes it confusing and all of that is interesting to me and I could watch it over and over and over again and that matters to me. And for an actress that was so young that got a role that she put her whole heart into and then for it to be so misunderstood, I have this movie’s back. And I like the message even if people don’t see it. They feel it. And I think his movies have a way of … You walk away feeling how he wanted you to feel, even if you’re confused why you feel this way.

Matt (02:46:22):

It’s a movie you feel. Absolutely. And I like you saying itches your brain. And you said what’s bad about it is bad. I don’t know if there’s anything that’s bad about it. I think everything-

Laci (02:46:32):

Well, what’s bad are things that are misunderstood, but that’s still …

Matt (02:46:36):

That’s not the movie’s fault.

Laci (02:46:38):

It doesn’t matter. If the sum of its parts come together and it’s off pudding, that does mean that some of it has gone wrong, especially if it doesn’t hit audiences the way you intended it, well then you didn’t do it right. You set out just to do something you did not achieve. Therefore, some of it’s wrong, but whatever it is that is wrong, I can’t name it and it makes me like it more.

Matt (02:47:03):

I think-

Laci (02:47:03):

So I try to dig into any one thing I think is bad. I end up telling myself it’s good, but there’s still something wrong with the full picture.

Matt (02:47:10):

If I had to put my finger on it, it’s trying to do too much.

Laci (02:47:14):

Sure. And

Matt (02:47:15):

That’s God. I’ll always want that over the alternative.

Laci (02:47:20):

But we get movies that do a whole lot like One Battle after another, for instance, and it’s perfect. There’s a way to do a lot and have it completely gel and be exactly what you meant.

Matt (02:47:32):

Before we started recording, I said, “I am having anxiety about this movie because about this podcast, because every scene, as I’m taking notes, there’s so much going on in every single scene and maybe that produces an uncomfortable feeling in the viewer. Maybe the movie is too long. You could remove-

Laci (02:47:52):

How dare

Matt (02:47:53):

You? No. If you remove James, maybe. None

Laci (02:47:56):

Of it can go.

Matt (02:47:57):

Move better.

Laci (02:47:58):

No.

Matt (02:47:58):

I think I don’t … The only criticism I really have is, while I love Kyle McLaughlin in the movie, I kind of wish he stayed with his like, I’m a nice guy persona through the end while continuing to be evil. Instead, he just fully owns, I’m a bad guy. Boom, boom,

Laci (02:48:18):

Boom, with the folder.

Matt (02:48:19):

Because I think there are guys like that who are just as evil and pernicious, but present

Laci (02:48:22):

Themselves on your side. Something about him continuing the veneer, but her seeing through it and going around him anyway, her truly choosing to do what she feels is right on the inside and giving up the shiny boyfriend, not because he showed himself, but because she can see through it. Nomi’s going out of this town having fucked up on her instincts in the beginning, but leaving having sharpened them. That would be really empowering. I was right about this, this, this, and this, and now I’m leaving Las Vegas.

Matt (02:48:56):

What makes her the prototypical American optimist is thinking things will be different in the next town and that I’ll just pull the slot machine again. I

Laci (02:49:05):

Think she just knows when she needs to get out of somewhere and she knows that moving around is the only way to get any kind of relief, even if it’s fleeting.

Matt (02:49:15):

I think that I was picking up on all of the precarity. It’s the subject I’m obsessed with. I feel it. I see it everywhere. Our jobs are all going away. We’re all going to have to work. If we’re lucky, we will have a full-time job and then a side hustle and then a sideside hustle and then do it on OnlyFans and then do a podcast.

Laci (02:49:33):

Only fans is hard.That’s

Matt (02:49:34):

What I was trying to say earlier is like, I bet people always have in their back pocket, “Well, I’ll just do OnlyFans. Oh, I’m a lady. I have nice boobs. I’ll go be a stripper.” It’s impossible.

Laci (02:49:46):

It’s the same as taking off on TikTok.

Matt (02:49:50):

Yeah.

Laci (02:49:50):

It’s sold as though it’s so easy, but it is fucking nut.

Matt (02:49:54):

And so she just feels like a very modern as in 2026 character because she is fully living the precarity and the stress of never having any security. And so every interaction is fraught and every interaction is scary. And so she’s always at 11 and the movie is all more powerful because of that. Five stars, great movie, love the movie. It was hard to watch it twice in two days because there’s just so much going on in it. But good movie. Great movie.

Laci (02:50:26):

Thank you.

Matt (02:50:27):

Masterpiece. You’re welcome. Coming up next week, The Devil Wears Product. Oh

Laci (02:50:31):

Yeah, because there’s another one coming out.

Matt (02:50:33):

There’s another one coming out. That’s why we’re doing it. But is this like a Lacy, Laci movie or just a- I love

Laci (02:50:39):

That movie.

Matt (02:50:39):

But just like a, I like that movie. No,

Laci (02:50:41):

No, I love that movie and Hathaway just has to be in it

Matt (02:50:44):

And

Laci (02:50:44):

I tolerate it.

Matt (02:50:45):

Okay. So we’ll dig into that. Coming up next week. Hey, check out Laci’s amazing. Is coloring still an accurate thing to describe? So what word do you

Laci (02:50:55):

Want? Well, I don’t know what I’m going to do with the titling of the channel, but now I’m just straight up drawing movie posters and … Well, what is this? Is this a movie poster?

Matt (02:51:08):

That’s close and … Yeah, I mean-

Laci (02:51:09):

But what would you call

Matt (02:51:10):

This? Yeah, the cover art.

Laci (02:51:11):

Cover art. That’s what I’m … I’m picking a VHS off my shelf and then I’m coloring it. I’m drawing that exact thing in my sketchbook. I don’t know. People like it. I haven’t gotten less than 5,000 views in the last seven posts. And some of them are like 70,000, 40,000. I don’t get it people, but whatever.

Matt (02:51:34):

Will Laci do erotic art for you? Only one way to find out. Ask her. Will you turn Kevin Costner from Dances With Wolves into Pinhead? Please.

Laci (02:51:42):

No.

Matt (02:51:43):

Why not?

Laci (02:51:44):

I don’t even know what you mean by that. How would that work?

Matt (02:51:47):

Link to her channel in the description. If you have made it this far in the podcast, thank you. Subscribe on YouTube. Real one. Follow us on all the socials. Listen to my band Rural Route nine, and we’ll see you in the future. And then the

Laci (02:52:00):

Tomorrow.

Matt (02:52:00):

That’s in the tomorrow.

Laci (02:52:01):

Okay. I love you goodbye.