Interstellar (2014)

Matt (00:00:47):

Hey, this is 1-Week Rental: The Summer Of Nolan. And Laci just said something incredibly knocked my freaking socks off. Time is a construct.

Laci (00:00:56):

Feet are cold.

Matt (00:00:58):

Sometimes I’m like, you know what? Time is fake. Time doesn’t even exist.

Laci (00:01:01):

We don’t even get it.

Matt (00:01:03):

I don’t know what it means, but it feels like something. And we’re going to get to the bottom of that over the course of this podcast. We’re

Laci (00:01:09):

Going to finally nail down what is time, everyone.

Matt (00:01:12):

I’m Matt Stokes. I’m

Laci (00:01:13):

Laci Roth.

Matt (00:01:13):

We are a married couple.

Laci (00:01:16):

Right now.

Matt (00:01:17):

It’s like picture us being in a Christopher Nolan movie except she’s alive. And we are in romantic and sexual love, unlike in Nolan movies where even people who are romantic partners, they give respectful handshakes and little pecks on the cheek and I’ll see you when I see you after the Trojan War.

Laci (00:01:34):

It’s none of his business. He’s being respectful.

Matt (00:01:36):

And it’s not our business either. That is Heaven. Get out

Laci (00:01:38):

Of their bedroom, you looky Lou.

Matt (00:01:42):

So where are we now? I mean, we’re now at the third and final prong of our three-pronged approach to Nolan. We’ve only got two episodes left in this miniseries, Tenet and Oppenheimer. Now, if you want to hear some bonus stuff, you can subscribe to our Patreon, patreon.com/oneweekrental. $2 a month gets you two bonus episodes. We have done a bonus episode on The Odyssey, on Insomnia, and on Dunkirk.

Laci (00:02:06):

That seems like more than two. Oh, over more than one.

Matt (00:02:11):

Time

Laci (00:02:11):

Is

Matt (00:02:11):

The

Laci (00:02:11):

Construct.

Matt (00:02:12):

Time.

Laci (00:02:13):

I’m experiencing it all right now.

Matt (00:02:15):

And that means we will have covered every Nolan movie except for following. But we talked about following on the first time. Yeah. So any thoughts, Laci, as we board the endurance and head into space on this final leg of our journey?

Laci (00:02:29):

We’ve been wrong about him this entire time.

Matt (00:02:32):

Really? You think so?

Laci (00:02:34):

I don’t know for sure that I totally agree that all of his movies are about his feeling guilty about being enraptured by his projects and being away from his children. I’m sure some of that is it, but I think I was so certain about this psychology of him that I think he’s just been a very curious person about time and being away and then coming back and then being rejuvenated by switching back to his other life. He’s had such an interesting back and forth life that I think it’s really natural for him to be away and then to come back. I think he’s kind of a lonely person that’s never lonely and I don’t really know how to. He’s so used to that feeling of separation that it doesn’t hurt the way it hurts for other people. It’s familiar and soothing.

Matt (00:03:27):

I think that maybe the way he experiences that, and we do irresponsible psychoanalysis here, we’re not qualified at all, is I should miss my kids, but I don’t. And that makes me feel bad.

Laci (00:03:38):

Well, he says in the book variations

Matt (00:03:42):

That were – The Nolan variations by Tom Schoen.

Laci (00:03:45):

I really related to something that either he or the writer says is that he was so used to changing up his surrounding that time stopped feeling like it felt for the other kids in his boarding school. They were sad that it was six weeks till they saw their parents again. But for him, he knew he would switch back to the other way. He’d go to America, he’d go to Chicago and he’d be rejuvenated and enjoy that. And then he’d pop back in England and that would rejuvenate him too. And that he just felt this comfort in the change. And that’s what’s made him comfortable going all over the world and for chunks of time that he’s got this sense of peace of I’ll get to go back. There’s always a going back and there’s this new charge and sense of purpose and wonder that happens every time he makes the change.

Laci (00:04:39):

So popping into a new movie experience or even a new location for the movie or even let’s shoot another scene. All of him is like this refreshing thing that he kind of developed as a child and an early adult. And I relate to that because that’s exactly how I feel about moving or just changing a room into another room. I get this new sense of purpose. I turned a page.

Matt (00:05:03):

It’s like how the people in the pineapple lifestyle, we call it the lifestyle, people like Laci and I, just kidding. But what they will say is when you watch a man have sex with your wife, it makes you want to have sex with your wife even more. I feel like. It’s like that. I can’t believe I didn’t connect this. He won all these little posh British fucks, “Oh, went to boarding school. Oh, went to Eaton College. Oh.” So you’re spending chunks of time. The British are like, “Yeah, you’re not going to be with your parents. You’re going to off be beaten by teachers part of your life.”

Laci (00:05:35):

Yeah. It really changes your perspective, but he was a person that really embraced it. And it’s another interesting blind spot of his, how you identified in him giving an interview about after doing The Dark Night where we made it through all of us, everyone collectively, we made it through the financial crisis. Woo, that’s a close one. Just blind to people who aren’t as fortunate as he is. Well, in the book, he’s like a constant spectator, but not totally absorbing the empathy or the understanding of why some people might feel the way that they do. But rather he’s just kind of fascinated by how other people respond to things that’s different from how he does. And one of those things was how some kids just don’t take to boarding school. There’s no such thing as someone rebelling against it and someone going along with it. There’s only someone who is going along with it and rebelling in private.

Laci (00:06:39):

And it’s just all this stuff. And it’s like, I can imagine a child very lonely in that situation. And he’s like, “I liked it. I really suited me.” And then you find out later that he’s good at rugby and that at this particular school, you’re already safe if you’re good at rugby, just good, just good enough to be on the team. But he wasn’t just on the team, he was in the top 15. So the interviewer kind of slily says, “And we interviewed one of his, someone who also went to this boarding school.” And that person said, “If you were in the top 15,” it might be top seven guys, I don’t know, “but if you were a varsity level athlete at this place, you were a god.” That was his words. And that was coming from a person who was not a god. So here we are, Christopher Nolan marveling at, “I wonder why I’m doing such a good job here.

Laci (00:07:33):

I wonder why I’m really fine. I just kind of go along and rebel in my own way.” Because you’re 20 feet tall and blonde and handsome and you’re a god on the rugby field. Even when you were six foam or whatever, when you were younger, you still looked real cute probably, man.

Matt (00:07:53):

Yeah. And there are people who are blessed and for whom the door’s just magically open and that doesn’t make. And people have really not liked me. This clip I made from our inception episode where I pointed out Nolan doesn’t have any characters who have financial insecurity and people nitpicked with that and like, oh, what about Dunkirk? Or what about. But the most common response I got was, who cares? Or that doesn’t make him bad. And I never said it makes him bad. Never

Laci (00:08:23):

Said.

Matt (00:08:23):

But he’s not interested. I don’t think he’s interested in making movies about things he personally doesn’t understand. Exactly. Which is why all of his characters are kind of just variations of him. Yes. I think that it’s not that he can’t write women characters. It’s that he can’t write non-Christopher Nolan

Laci (00:08:39):

Characters. He’s

Matt (00:08:40):

Not a woman. Yeah. He’s not a woman.

Laci (00:08:41):

Right. He can’t write a person that’s not just generally good at what they do. And in fact, the heroes of most of his movies end up being the best and the only person who could have done what they did. And Interstellar is the biggest example of that. It’s like, yeah, Matthew McConaughey was definitely going to be the chosen one, but I mean, so was his daughter. I mean, it’s going to be genetic, right? And it’s just like, you know this is not how it works for everybody else.

Matt (00:09:10):

Right. But if there is a chosen one, you’re watching the story about the chosen one. You could be watching a story about not the chosen one, but that wouldn’t be as fun.

Laci (00:09:18):

Well, and there’s other directors to do that. I don’t think it makes him any kind of negative thing to stay in his lane and stay where he’s familiar. And he’s always said he has to be really inspired and see the story. I don’t think he’s capable of seeing the story, not from his own point of view. I think he would like to be able to do that, but it suits him just fine.

Matt (00:09:38):

Yeah. Do we get

Laci (00:09:39):

This way?

Matt (00:09:40):

Another thing that I talked about on the Dunkirk episode with our friend Drew, no sex in his movies. Only in Oppenheimer. And there it’s in a weird way where he’s intersecting Killian Murphy having sex with Florence Pugh with the now I am become deaf. So that doesn’t seem like something that interests him or at least maybe feels like, and Spielberg’s the same way. I’m not good at showing sex. I don’t know how to do it, so I avoid it. And this is not a critique of

Laci (00:10:11):

Him. Not at all. It’s

Matt (00:10:11):

Just

Laci (00:10:12):

Recognize what you’re good at. Movies over in a row and you start to realize, oh yeah, I think I felt this. And I think it’s probably a theme with your blockbuster people. He’s definitely making movies that transcend and that make a shit ton of money. And you’re like, oh duh. Because at the end of the day, they’re family friendly. They’re really fucking interesting, but there’s no sex and there’s no complicated politics. And so you’re Spielberging without meaning to. These movies are not –

Matt (00:10:43):

No, he worships Spielberg. I think he wants to. He wants to be a populist filmmaker and he’s always resented when people call him an art house director. No, he’s not.

Laci (00:10:51):

No, he’s not. Yeah. No, I know. He’s just got a very intricate, interesting process and style and people around him who help him make these complicated things unravel on the screen and be accessible for most people. But I guess I always though of him as a little more edgy than Spielberg, but he’s really not. He’s just a little more. I don’t want to say creative. He’s a little less wholesome. He cares a little bit less about the family unit.

Matt (00:11:21):

Yeah, absolutely.

Laci (00:11:22):

Nostalgia.

Matt (00:11:23):

This is another thing that we talked about on the Dunkirk podcast is the things that work least about that movie are when he seems like he’s trying to pull at your Spielberg heartstrings and give you a little old-fashioned war movie Schmaltz. And he’s not good at that.

Laci (00:11:35):

Yes. And when Interstellar starts, and this is the most McConaughey fucking voice, he’s really in it. McConaughey’s really doing his thing in a vocal fry way that starts to kind of irritate with me. And I get that he’s a distant but good dad. I get that. But when it’s like the little connecting parts, and you need them for the story, you really can’t do it without him. But it’s like he’s forcing, showing us these loving family connections except for when he totally gives up. And he doesn’t even hug the father-in-law goodbye whenever he leaves for the rest of his life.

Matt (00:12:14):

Take care of my kids, Donald.

Laci (00:12:15):

My Donald gets so fucking. But he’s trying to show you intimacy and I’m uncomfortable. I feel his discomfort. I think he gets there and the rest of the movie makes up for it.

Matt (00:12:30):

I think that McConaughey’s so good and I feel his love for his kids so much. What’s weird, the one that’s always bugged me is he doesn’t even ask about his son at the end of the movie.

Laci (00:12:42):

Well, he wouldn’t have had enough money to get cryogenically broke.

Matt (00:12:46):

I know he doesn’t. All you need is 10 seconds. And Tom. Tom’s. No.

Laci (00:12:51):

The movie is. I mean, she’s 150 at that point, but yeah.

Matt (00:12:55):

Just say the word Tom. That’s all I’m asking. That’s

Laci (00:12:58):

Interesting too. But he’s in a room full of his grandchildren and great-great-grandchildren. Doesn’t even stop to say hello, doesn’t look at them, doesn’t ask their names, doesn’t ask her how her life went or anything.

Matt (00:13:09):

He’s just

Laci (00:13:09):

Like, “Well, bye.”

Matt (00:13:12):

That works. I love this movie. I love it. I love this movie. I

Laci (00:13:15):

Love it. This daughter completely understands what her dad is capable of, and she respects the hell out of him and loves him, and yet found her father figure way the fuck somewhere else. It just isn’t him. He’s someone to be admired.

Matt (00:13:34):

He’s the ghost. And she has a ghost before he leaves, but the role he was actually destined for was just this kind of non-existent figure.

Laci (00:13:45):

Yeah. This hero.

Matt (00:13:47):

Yeah.

Laci (00:13:49):

It’s interesting because they opened the movie with him having eject from a fighter plane. In a different movie, that would be the dad’s death before the movie starts. And you could think of it that way. He could have ejected and died right then because the kind of ethos that’s around is this fallen hero, but someone who, like Dr. Mann, he’s the best of us. Not meant to really exist because when Dr. Mann really exists, he’s kind of a murderous little pussy baby.

Matt (00:14:24):

Yeah. No, it is almost like he died. He died. And now he’s a ghost. Right. Because the real me is the guy who should be flying up in the stars.

Laci (00:14:33):

Sorry.

Matt (00:14:34):

Farming. That’s perfect. I

Laci (00:14:35):

Hate Farman.

Matt (00:14:37):

Going to get to the history segment about Interstellar in a moment. Sorry. So

Laci (00:14:41):

Sorry.

Matt (00:14:42):

We haven’t podcasted in two weeks. Downloading all of our thoughts, big picture thoughts onto you right now. I missed you. I missed you. Gross. Two, Christopher and co-Emma, Nathan, Hans. And

Laci (00:14:53):

Co-women,

Matt (00:14:54):

Nathan. Jonah.

Laci (00:14:55):

Okay.

Matt (00:14:55):

All of his people.

Laci (00:14:57):

Giasi.

Matt (00:14:58):

The other thing is that mentality that you have that a person has of like, “Well, I’m separated from my parents from now, but I’ll be with them in two months and whatever. Then it’ll be fine.” That’s like an adult perspective. So he was a weird kid who feels like an adult.

Laci (00:15:13):

Yes.

Matt (00:15:14):

And now as an adult doesn’t realize, oh, not everybody else has that perspective. And most notably, my kids. When I leave to go shoot for six months, I come back. It’s like I’m a time traveler because my kid’s a different person now.

Laci (00:15:25):

And that part of the book is so interesting too. He never got this sense of. He had once had two homes and also simultaneously never really experienced what it is to have a home. Not only would he have to adjust to America when he got home, but to Chicago and to whatever family existed at his house once he got there. He doesn’t know about girlfriends and relationships and fights and inside jokes and new hobbies of mom or any of that. He would literally have to spend a portion of his reuniting with them catching up to what had happened with the family as he’s always been an observer and a catcher upper and a visitor.

Matt (00:16:15):

And this is because his family has the weird situation where they split time between England and America so much so that his younger brother Jonah has an American accent and he has a British accent.

Laci (00:16:24):

They don’t. He does because his dad insisted that he went to that boarding school, that system of schools. So they long since

Matt (00:16:32):

Moved to America. So they moved to America and he’s the one who – He’s the only

Laci (00:16:34):

One. They were so. It was either the mom or the dad that were just so invested in him getting this specific education. I do not know why they didn’t do it for Jonah. Jonah grows up in the public school system. I mean, just experiencing a completely different world than his brother. So them uniting and always combining. The lack of ego in this family is their gift. At least between these two very curious but limited brothers. It keeps them in their lane, but one of them’s got this American. He can give you that perspective. He can Americanize a movie for you. And the other one has this thing Jonah will never understand. And they both, they just put it together and you get this mixture of good old boy posh. I don’t know how he does it, but I think the lack of ego on Christopher shows in how much influence he lets Jonah have and his wife.

Laci (00:17:34):

And it just makes this. They’re just a great team. They’re pleasant as fuck.

Matt (00:17:39):

I’m glad you brought that up because Jonah is a very enormous figure in this movie’s history. I have a podcast that comes out every month about the James Bond series. And if you listen to the first two episodes, my co-host Wade and I dove into the world of British boarding schools, a world we knew nothing about. So it’s just like if you go to a certain. Eaton is the big one. It’s like no matter what else you accomplish in life, that is still the defining characteristic of your life as I’m an Eaton man.

Laci (00:18:09):

People who have gone through the boarding school process will say if later in life they end up in prison, that they’re totally at home. Everything is controlled down. It’s all about the big giant clock. Everything you do down to brushing your teeth and your free time is all on a timetable. And it all just kind of goes in a mesh. But if you walk on the grass, you get demerits or you have to write sentences. Even that is a punishable crime. You have to spend so much of your life just following arbitrary rules just to not get hassled. And it’s like you find a way to have an identity and a life inside of that conformity. It makes you so good at prison. No being bothered. No, I get it. Eat now. Yeah.

Matt (00:19:00):

I feel like I’d be a good prisoner.

Laci (00:19:01):

It’s eating time.

Matt (00:19:02):

Sometimes I feel like I’d kind of excel. As long as I wouldn’t get shanked or anything. If you give me simple rules, I can be so regimented. I’ll blow your mind.

Laci (00:19:13):

That man loves a rule.

Matt (00:19:14):

I’m

Laci (00:19:15):

There with you. Except for when to put your name badge on at a fucking walking tour.

Matt (00:19:19):

I’m not in prison then. The only prison I’m in is marriage, but we’ll get to that. And I guess the reason Ian Fleming wrote the James Bond novels is obsessed with his boarding school. Anyway, Christopher Nolan, Interstellar. I already told you to subscribe to the Patreon subscribe on YouTube. All of that. Let’s get into the history of interstellar. If

Laci (00:19:38):

There’s time.

Matt (00:20:04):

Where does this all happen? Where does this all come from Interstellar, I should say. And the thing is –

Laci (00:20:11):

Their childhood.

Matt (00:20:12):

We’ve said that Inception is his most autobiographical movie. I think Interstellar is actually the most autobiographical movie now that I compare them. Laci’s shaking her head at me.

Laci (00:20:22):

I think it’s all. I think time collapses in his movies and you got to take it from different places. I think doing a space movie was probably the first thing he wanted to do. But just like with Cameron. Cameron?

Matt (00:20:37):

James Cameron.

Laci (00:20:38):

Cameron Cameron. He had to wait for the technology. But he says when Jonah walked on the set and they’re doing some kind of crazy fucking centrifuge thing with the actors, he walked in and he was like, “How have we not done this already?” And it’s like he just felt like home because these are the kinds of movies they would make is space movies. So in that way, it’s like the most, “This is what we want to do.” Where the other thing, Inception, was this obsession he had about dreaming and about what music does in dreams since he was a little boy. So it’s like they were both these things that had been baking for two decades.

Matt (00:21:17):

Well, I guess when I say autobiographical, I mean where he has these protagonists that are driven by the same things that drive him. And in McConaughey, in this movie, he literally, he drinks a beer on the porch with his father-in-law and he’s like, “Yeah, I’m going to space to technically save the human race, but really I’m going because I really want to and I feel like I was

Laci (00:21:33):

Born for this.” I

Matt (00:21:35):

Cannot sit here. And I have some quotes from Nolan saying kind of the same thing.

Laci (00:21:38):

Yeah.

Matt (00:21:40):

But the other thing we’ve said is that the only movie of Nolan’s that didn’t originate with him that he didn’t build from the ground up was Insomnia. But it’s also kind of true with Interstellar because this movie actually begins not with Christopher Nolan or even his brother Jonah, but with the producer, Linda Opst, and her good friend, the theoretical physicist, Kip Thorne.

Laci (00:21:58):

Interesting.

Matt (00:21:59):

These two had been set up on a blind date in the 1980s by the astronomer and science writer, Carl Sagan.

Laci (00:22:05):

I knew you were going to say Carl Sagan. It was that or Neil Tyson de Grassi, whatever the fuck

Matt (00:22:10):

Was – The modern worse Carl Sagan. Yes, the host of Cosmos, which for a longtime, Laci went to sleep every night watching Cosmos.

Laci (00:22:18):

Very, very. Because I could relearn it. I would watch it and I’d understand it. Then it’d go. I just

Matt (00:22:24):

Kept – It’s just a vibe. It’s just like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it right at second. I won’t go a second from now, but it’s in here right now. So Opst was a very successful Hollywood producer, collaborator of Nora Efrons, producer of Sleepless in Seattle. And I have read her memoir, Sleepless in Hollywood, and it’s a good chronicle of her watching Hollywood totally change, watching all the movies she made. Suddenly studios not being interested in making anymore. One of the movies she produced was How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, starring Matthew McConaughey. She made lots of rom-coms. She made lots of star-driven movies, but now studios only care about IP-driven blockbusters. But it wasn’t just rom-coms. She was always very interested in sci-fi. Going back to the ’80s where her friend Carl Sagan hooked her up with this guy, Kip Thorne, his friend, this theoretical physicist.

Matt (00:23:18):

And his friend, Kip Thorne, told him Carl Sagan about wormholes. And this is what led Carl Sagan to write the novel Contact, which then – I didn’t know

Laci (00:23:26):

That was by Carl Sagan.

Matt (00:23:28):

Which then Linda Ops spent a long time, more than 10 years developing as a movie for the director, George Miller of the Mad Max movies. And this was like her life’s work.

Laci (00:23:39):

Hard at that time. I mean, that’s really early to try to get a truce. I can’t remember how much actual space. You know what I’m doing? I might be mixing it with gravity. Shit. Shit. Shit. Because maybe Contact doesn’t spend any time in space.

Matt (00:23:52):

Contact has an extended wormhole sequence, but yeah, no, it’s mostly on Earth. Fuck me. George Miller ultimately got fired from that movie by the studio, and she resented that because he just wouldn’t work by their. They demanded a certain budget and timeframe. And so he got replaced with Robert Zembekis.

Laci (00:24:11):

Ooh, that’s a very different vibe.

Matt (00:24:13):

Yeah. It’s a good. I like Contact. It’s a frustrating movie, but it is definitely an antecedent of Interstellar.

Laci (00:24:20):

I remember the ending being frustrating, and I don’t remember why. It’s

Matt (00:24:23):

Just like it leaves

Laci (00:24:24):

A flavor in your mouth. I have no memory of this movie except for the end was like, “Come on.”

Matt (00:24:28):

Can I say what the ending is? Oh God, did

Laci (00:24:31):

She discover a statue of herself on a beach of monkeys?

Matt (00:24:34):

What she discovers is that the aliens are her father.

Laci (00:24:38):

No, so I’m

Matt (00:24:38):

Kind of wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they’re not her father. They’re the aliens taking the form of someone she’ll understand. Yes, just like it in itself. But it’s one of these stories where it’s like, I got to go to space to learn about myself.

Laci (00:24:52):

I don’t get why people don’t like this. This is so fucking interesting. If you can’t even perceive of what other dimensions would even possibly look like, then you got to think someone who has access to this technology who wants to teach a third grade or something is going to take something they do understand and get it as baby enough as they can to help that person ease into this bigger understanding. Interstellar makes all the sense of the world.

Matt (00:25:19):

I guess.

Laci (00:25:20):

Yes.

Matt (00:25:21):

I like context. You know

Laci (00:25:21):

What it makes me think of? Is it AI artificial intelligence where they are such an advanced species that they’ve been replaced by the AI they intentionally made to do certain things and

Matt (00:25:33):

Moves

Laci (00:25:34):

Together? Okay. And don’t they, for the human sake, give him.

Matt (00:25:40):

Yeah.

Laci (00:25:42):

Interstellar makes

Matt (00:25:42):

Sense. That’s also how 2001 A Space Odyssey ends as well.

Laci (00:25:46):

Right.

Matt (00:25:46):

Let me

Laci (00:25:46):

Give you what. I’m

Matt (00:25:47):

Going

Laci (00:25:47):

To make your little habitat, put a stick in it.

Matt (00:25:50):

I think for some people it’s a little. Because 2001 exists and the astronaut, Dave Bowman, goes out through this wormhole and then gets put in an alien zoo. But the point is he’s not a character. He’s not reliving his childhood trauma. He’s supposed to represent humanity. And for some people it’s like, I don’t care about Matthew McConaughey missing his kids. I don’t care about Jodi Foster missing her father.

Laci (00:26:14):

Then you’re not in it for the right reasons. That’s what’s so good about Nolan.

Matt (00:26:17):

The right reasons. I mean, you could just be like, I want mind-bending sci-fi

Laci (00:26:21):

Ideas. I immediately felt stupid for having said that. There’s no right reason to watch a movie. But if you just think a Nolan movie’s going to be just sci-fi, then you haven’t been paying attention to any of his movies. They are just as much a exploration of what makes humans do things? What makes them sad? What makes them long ging? What makes them fight really hard? What’s guilt? What’s shame? All of his movies are about that. It’s not just straight up sci-fi.

Matt (00:26:51):

Yeah. And I think that part of the mixed reception for Interstellar when it came out was kind of we were expecting a certain thing. And it was sort of like, oh, here comes Nolan’s Magnum Opus. And instead it was like, huh, not kind of what I was expecting. And then within a few years, everyone came around and said, “Oh, that rules, that’s his best movie.” Now it’s his highest rated movie on Letterboxd. It’s usually right up there at the top of everybody’s list.

Laci (00:27:20):

You have to give it credit for really dabbling in the science, but then letting go of where he could let go of science when it just served the story. Our understanding of the universe is limited. And I think this movie might stretch it a little bit, but I think they leave it where we don’t know. Matthew McConaughey just gets picked up by fucking rangers or whatever the hell at the end after being in the thing. Leave it. We don’t know. So

Matt (00:27:52):

In the movie – I’ve seen this movie so many times. There’s still stuff I couldn’t. It’s not like I couldn’t. It’s not that I don’t understand. It’s like, but wait, but how does he go from there to there? Just little logistics things.

Laci (00:28:06):

I don’t think Nolan’s going to give you bullshit science reasons why it happened because I think there’s no understanding of how it could, but he needs the story to get there because he spends so much of the movie giving you real science. That’s how it feels. So don’t muddy it with like, you know what happens after a wormhole? No one fucking knows.

Matt (00:28:26):

Well, Contact was another movie where you could call it hard sci-fi because they’re working with real scientists like Kip Thorne and saying, “As much as we can, we’re going to stick to the real science and the real implications raised by theoretical physics and stuff.” I love

Laci (00:28:39):

That.

Matt (00:28:40):

And Opst was very happy with how Contact turned out, but she still resented that George Miller was fired. It would be fascinating a George Miller contact. But also, who’s in Contact? Who’s the co-star of Contact?

Laci (00:28:54):

McConaughey.

Matt (00:28:55):

Yeah, Matthew McConaughey. That’s crazy.

Laci (00:28:57):

Why not get Jodi Foster in Interstellar, guys? Come on.

Matt (00:29:00):

Joni Foster would be a perfect Christopher Nolan hero. Oh my

Laci (00:29:04):

God, what if he switched to just a lesbian? If he can write a man, he can maybe write a lesbian, maybe.

Matt (00:29:10):

Of course he could. No, no. He can absolutely have a female lead character. She’s just going to behave exactly like all his male lead

Laci (00:29:16):

Characters. Or how about this? You have a very involved wife. Can she do some writing maybe? Can she help you fim it up? Maybe he’s got a butch wife.

Matt (00:29:25):

So yeah, Contact comes out in 1997 and Ops is so proud of it and wants to work with her friend Kip Thorn again. And they develop an idea. The wormhole’s a big part of Contact. They want to explore that some more. And all these questions about what real physics says can happen, all this stuff about bending time and shit. Ooh, good subject for a movie. They approach Steven Spielberg at Dreamworks and he says, “I love it. I love that idea. I’ll direct it.”

Laci (00:29:51):

Done nothing like it.

Matt (00:29:53):

But?

Laci (00:29:53):

Not wormholes, true.

Matt (00:29:54):

You’re right. The thing is –

Laci (00:29:58):

He hasn’t loved Thurs.

Matt (00:29:59):

He’s never made The movie in space. He just

Laci (00:30:01):

Says goodbye to the

Matt (00:30:02):

People leaving. Right, exactly. And when this gets announced, everybody’s excited and like, oh yeah. Did you know Steven Spielberg’s never actually made a movie in space?

Laci (00:30:08):

God, I think you were either a space guy or you’re a land guy.You’re an earth guy? George Lucas doing earth stuff? Boring. I don’t know. You’ve

Matt (00:30:19):

Never seen American graffiti, my friend.

Laci (00:30:22):

He didn’t want to make that fucking movie.

Matt (00:30:24):

Oh yes, he did. He loves his room room cars racing on the streets. Well,

Laci (00:30:27):

But it’s like the most half-assed like, oh, remember this? Dua. I

Matt (00:30:30):

Haven’t

Laci (00:30:31):

Seen

Matt (00:30:31):

It. That’s a great move. Yes. Okay. Obviously.

Laci (00:30:35):

I just think some people have a better concept of the infinite. And Spielberg’s all about the family nuclear story. So I can’t really. It’d have to be a little family in a pod who. All right. I’m sorry.

Matt (00:30:47):

Continue. So Spielberg, I’m going to direct it. Can’t wait. I’m going to hire a writer, Jonathan Nolan, to write the

Laci (00:30:52):

Script.

Matt (00:30:53):

Dreamworks at the time. Jonah. Jonah.

Laci (00:30:55):

Okay.

Matt (00:30:56):

Dreamworks at the time is partnered with Paramount. It is transitioning away from being a fully fledged studio on its own. So this is a project that is developing at Paramount. Now in 2007, here, the LA Times reports on this deal. “At one point, Opst and Thorn were brainstorming about, as Ops put it, the most exotic events in the universe suddenly becoming accessible to humans and crafted a potential cinematic scenario that hooked Spielberg enough to consider directing. Enter Jonathan Nolan, whose clever brain twisting creativity elevated Memento and the Prestige, both directed by his brother Chris, above their Erstwile genre material. Nolan’s original short story, Memento Morey, was the basis for his brother screenplay for Memento. According to Opst, Nolan took the interstellar treatment’s basic idea and added a time element that none of us had thought of. I’m going to. Sorry, this is Jonathan Nolan saying this.

Matt (00:31:46):

“A lot of the narrative will be suggested by some of these amazing ideas that Dr. Thorn has been working on. His accumulated knowledge of the wonders of the universe. I’m going to immerse myself as much as my feeble little mind can wrap itself around some of these concepts and the narrative will emerge.” So Jonathan Nolan writes a script sometime in the late aughts, but Spielberg has to leave the project because he moves his production deal from Paramount to Disney. So Interstellar stays at Paramount. And then Jonathan immediately says to Paramount, “My brother would love to direct this.”

Laci (00:32:19):

Meanwhile, Jonah was doing a backroom deal to make sure that that other thing went through, their Spielberg would conflict out.

Matt (00:32:25):

Yeah. Just kidding. We should probably have done a profile of Jonathan Nolan and what he’s done aside from his –

Laci (00:32:33):

Yeah. Well, let’s do that for the Patreon because I think. And when I see a character like Jesse, I can’t help but think of the wayward Nolan. Or maybe that’s why you don’t ask about him. You don’t ask about. Not Jesse. Tom, you don’t ask about Tom at Thanksgiving because –

Matt (00:32:48):

You don’t ask about Matthew Nolan, the criminal.

Laci (00:32:50):

Right. Well, because maybe you don’t want an update. Some siblings, you get an update when something’s really, really bad. And when you’re not hearing anything, you’re like, leave it.

Matt (00:32:58):

Okay. There we go. Don’t

Laci (00:32:59):

Tell me about Tom.

Matt (00:33:01):

If you don’t know, folks, Christopher – Tom’s right behind you. Christopher and Jonathan Nolan have an older brother named Matthew who is a con artist and was accused of murdering a Costa Rican national or.

Laci (00:33:10):

Had it coming.

Matt (00:33:11):

Crazy, crazy stuff. They don’t talk about

Laci (00:33:14):

Him. Like

Matt (00:33:14):

In a boat, right?

Laci (00:33:14):

Yeah. Fucking don’t go on the water with anyone.

Matt (00:33:17):

Including

Laci (00:33:17):

Carnival Cruise Line. No kidding.

Matt (00:33:23):

Christopher Nolan only made movies for Warner Brothers. So Warner Brothers has to agree to loan him out to Paramount. They enter a co-production deal with Paramount. Some

Laci (00:33:32):

Old school fucking starlet shit. I guess you can have Rita Hayworth.

Matt (00:33:36):

It’s actually because his production company has a contract with Warner Brothers, so they have to make a deal if we’re going to –

Laci (00:33:44):

Some rookie shit, Nolan.

Matt (00:33:45):

Do some other stuff. So what they do is they do some IP trading, some intellectual property trading that still has ramifications to this day. They agree to let Paramount produce a South Park movie and a Friday the 13th movie. South Park is produced by Warner Brothers, but it airs on, or it used to air on Comedy Central with a Paramount Network. Now, for years, there’s been chicanery afoot as Paramount Plus has been producing these, what they’re calling South Park movies, but they’re actually just several episodes of the show strung together. What? Trey Parker and Matt Stone ended up getting sued over this for a sort of double dealing. They were making South Park movies for Paramount Plus and regular episodes of the show for HBO Max. I don’t remember how that resolved. You

Laci (00:34:33):

Sass Canadians.

Matt (00:34:36):

Yeah. They’re not Canadians.

Laci (00:34:38):

They’re Canadians.

Matt (00:34:40):

Now Paramount and Warners are merging, so who knows what that even means?

Laci (00:34:44):

Did I just go through a wormhole?

Matt (00:34:46):

Are

Laci (00:34:46):

We back to Interstellar?

Matt (00:34:47):

Back to Interstellar, yes. The dark night rises ends and Christopher Nolan’s getting that itch. Got to do something. Uh-oh. Sitting around with my thoughts too much on the sofa. Okay. Kip Thorne, that old scientist. Let me get on the phone with him.

Laci (00:35:00):

How old is he? How old are we talking? I mean, he seems spry in the 80s, so he’s only what, in his 60s by then?

Matt (00:35:10):

He would’ve been 76, 75, 76.

Laci (00:35:13):

He looks like Walter White.

Matt (00:35:15):

Nolan starts working with Kip Thorn according to Wired Magazine. And as always, our sources are cited in the episode description. “Over the course of a couple of months in early 2013, Thorn and Nolan delved into what the physicist called the warped side of the universe. Curved space time, holes in the fabric of reality, how gravity bends light. The story is now essentially all Chris and Jonah’s. Thorn says, but the spirit of it, the goal of having a movie in which science is embedded in the fabric from the beginning, and it’s great science, that was preserved. “So Interstellar falls into what you would call hard sci-fi. It is grounded in rules that you could see a relatively near future version of humanity being able to do. There’s no faster than light speed travel. It takes – True.

Laci (00:36:02):

There’s just hibernation

Matt (00:36:04):

Or

Laci (00:36:04):

Cryo.

Matt (00:36:07):

I remember reading Kim Stanley Robinson’s novel Aurora about interstellar, what are they called? A generation ship. It can’t go faster than light. So the people aboard this giant ship are going. This is a voyage that’s going to take like 700 years. So generations and generations of people will die and be born and everything. It’s just about the life aboard that ship.

Laci (00:36:30):

Right. Which is a lot like the Murphy station.

Matt (00:36:34):

Yeah.

Laci (00:36:35):

Yeah. We don’t know how long we’re going to need everybody in this giant ball, but

Matt (00:36:40):

We

Laci (00:36:40):

Weren’t just going to let you die on earth.

Matt (00:36:42):

It starts with the essential premise that, okay, we’re here on earth. There’s no other planets nearby that we can live on. The closest star is a thousand years away. All right, what do we do then? What can we do?

Laci (00:36:53):

Start

Matt (00:36:53):

Preparing

Laci (00:36:54):

Our infants for centrifugal force.

Matt (00:36:56):

But one thing you can do is a wormhole, which they discover. I don’t know at which point they discovered as a theoretical possibility.

Laci (00:37:02):

Who is they?

Matt (00:37:03):

Scientists.

Laci (00:37:05):

Okay. We’re not talking about

Matt (00:37:06):

Interstelling. Right, right, right. The idea of wormholes is what got Kipthorn and Carl Sagan excited in the 80s. That’s why Contact was written.

Laci (00:37:14):

Something I didn’t remember until we were watching the movie. I didn’t realize a wormhole could be. This is stupid. I’m sure the movie’s just taking liberties, but the wormhole was placed.

Matt (00:37:25):

Wormholes can only be placed. Wormholes are not naturally occurring.

Laci (00:37:29):

Wait, then how do we know they exist? Or we don’t.

Matt (00:37:32):

The laws of physics imply that they do. I’m not smart enough to understand.

Laci (00:37:36):

That’s so interesting.

Matt (00:37:37):

Yeah. I don’t know. Everything we know about physics says this has to be possible.

Laci (00:37:46):

Math is so interesting that way, man. The certainty of it. Got enough chalkboards in a row, you can just figure out some shit.

Matt (00:37:54):

Yeah. And so Nolan’s like, okay, wormholes are artificial and we can’t make them, but someone could. And though someone who could, could be people in the future.

Laci (00:38:06):

Right. And those people could be us. And that makes the most sense because who else would give a shit about Earthlings except for that they used to. They are us. I love that.

Matt (00:38:18):

Yeah. It’s also, I think it’s a thing that keeps recurring. It’s also sort of the sea people in the Odyssey. If you realize, oh, the sea people are us. We are the sea people.

Laci (00:38:27):

Right.

Matt (00:38:27):

When we cross – It’s a feedback loop.

Laci (00:38:29):

Yeah. Well, and it’s like an echo of maybe how it felt to Nolan to switch back and forth between Chicago and England in that England.

Laci (00:38:39):

In that over here, maybe he sinks into his English accent a little bit more in England. And he is Christopher Nolan, but he’s the England version. And then he goes to Chicago. He’s code switching. His parents told him when he was like, I don’t know, eight or nine, that he would need to pick what. No, they didn’t tell him that. They told him what kind of citizenship. He would eventually at 18 have to pick America or England. And luckily he didn’t have to. But no, what he realized as a kid is that he had to make a choice. Do I want to talk like my brother Jonathan and start to affect a American accent? Or do I want to keep this slightly English accent I have and just let that. And so he said he made a conscious choice of like, you just do it.

Matt (00:39:31):

Yeah. I mean, yeah, that is part

Laci (00:39:33):

Of his – I stopped saying y’all. Same thing.

Matt (00:39:35):

I stopped saying y’all for a long time and then brought back. Yeah, I

Laci (00:39:37):

Say it now.

Matt (00:39:38):

I like y’all now.

Laci (00:39:39):

I know, Matt.

Matt (00:39:40):

Okay.

Laci (00:39:41):

Oh, I’m sorry.

Matt (00:39:42):

Part of the presentation of Nolan is that he looks like this posh English guy. So yeah, if he came up to you with his blonde hair and well groomed and he’s like, “How you doing Christopher Nolan? Nice to meet you there.” I don’t know. I don’t know

Laci (00:39:55):

If I want to give you a lot of money, Christopher.

Matt (00:39:56):

Christopher, because he is Christopher, wants to play with time dilation again, just like in an inception. And Kip Thorne says, “All right, you want time dilation? You need a black hole.” So we’re two different kinds of space holes in this movie, a wormhole and a black hole. And we need to take very seriously, we’re going to use the laws of physics to depict what these things would actually look like. Now, got to be about time, got to be about my other neurotic preoccupation, which is my family, my kids. What a neurotic. And we talked a lot about his kids. And again, probably irresponsible of us to diagnose him so much. But let’s talk about his kids. All of his kids are grown now. There’s four of them. They all worked in various capacities on The Odyssey. We got Flora, who is now 25 years old, their first child.

Matt (00:40:45):

She was the age of Murph when Nolan was rewriting Interstellar. She basically is Murph. We got Oliver and Rory, ages unknown, but they were born in between 2001 and 2008. And the youngest is Magnus, who was born in 2008, meaning he’s 17 or 18 years old now.

Matt (00:41:04):

According to InStyle Magazine, Nolan said about bringing all of his kids to work on the Odyssey quote, “I’d sort of look behind a boat out at sea and see a guy in a wetsuit maneuvering the boat and realizing it was one of my sons.” Things like that. The director said with a laugh adding that his children weren’t doing the glamorous jobs on set. In an interview with Emma Thomas about the production of Dunkirk, it said, this is in. Fuck, this was in Vanity Fair, I believe. “Thomas runs their household as well as their film sets. Something that is easier to balance,” she said, than it sounds. Sometimes people will say to me, “Gosh, how do you do it? You have four kids and you make these big movies. But the fact that I work with my children’s father means I can bring my kids to work.

Matt (00:41:46):

I have a massive advantage. Many other working parents I know have much more structured jobs. When you’re shooting, the hours are insane. However, we always know that it’s finite. It’s over. And then we come back to a rather more normal life.”

Laci (00:41:57):

That’s how I

Matt (00:41:58):

Feel

Laci (00:41:58):

About whenever it’s time to gear up for a conference or when Max is in theater. It’s all encompassing, but it does go away.

Matt (00:42:05):

It’s going to end.

Laci (00:42:06):

Yeah. So chill.

Matt (00:42:08):

I’m chill.

Laci (00:42:08):

Quit being on my back about it.

Matt (00:42:12):

In the Nolan variations, that book we keep talking about, it says, “Nolan was thinking very much of his daughter, Flora, 11, and the heartache involved when he goes off to make a film. The working title of Interstellar was Flora’s Letter. I very much related to the dilemma of somebody who is having to go off and do this thing, leave his kids, whom he dearly wants to be with, but he really wants to go do this thing. My job is something that I absolutely love. I consider myself unbelievably lucky to do it, but there is a lot of guilt involved in doing that. A lot of guilt. I have a daughter who’s the same age as a character. In my brother’s draft, it was a son. I turned it into a daughter because Flora was about that age when I was making it. As my kids were growing up, I had this desire to hang onto the past.

Matt (00:42:51):

You become quite melancholy about how fast it’s going. All parents talk about it. All parents experience it. So Interstellar came from a very personal place.

Laci (00:42:59):

And I never doubted that, but he had to get there to do the story that way because he cannot make movies about things he hasn’t experienced. So it makes sense that this is when he does it because this is when he could do it.

Matt (00:43:13):

Yeah. Yeah. How could I tell this story? My daughter’s only four. I

Laci (00:43:16):

Need to miss someone.

Matt (00:43:19):

I will note that Timothy Chalamet signed on to do this movie under the impression that it was still the Jonathan draft where the son is the main kid.

Laci (00:43:26):

Oh, ow.

Matt (00:43:27):

And he didn’t learn. I think he said something like he didn’t learn until the movie was screened for him because he said a lot of his scenes got deleted.

Laci (00:43:33):

Oh, fuck. How do you not know you’re not the one?

Matt (00:43:37):

So yeah, I mean, we’ve already talked about kids. Kids experience time differently. You an adult, a week is nothing. If you’re a kid, that’s a lot. We’re telling our son school starting in four days. He’s like, “What? I though this was forever, man.”

Laci (00:43:50):

Right. I mean, and when you don’t have any control over how you spend your time during the day, or not the way you do when you’re an adult, or just a lot to do when you’re an adult. The summer seems like it’s kind of endless. And so does the weight to Christmas. I feel like December one, or no, Thanksgiving to Christmas used to just feel it was an eternity.

Matt (00:44:15):

And then what do we always say every time it’sChristmas? It’s always fucking Christa. It’s ridiculous. Bullshit. It’s

Laci (00:44:20):

Almost Christmas and now.

Matt (00:44:22):

I know.

Laci (00:44:22):

I know.

Matt (00:44:22):

It’s almost past Christmas now. When you’re off doing something, you’re distracted and you kind of become a time traveler because it’s like traveling into the future. And now I’m meeting a different version of my kid, an older version of my kid. Or the world keeps. Things keep happening in the world and I’m distracted and not paying attention. Yeah.

Laci (00:44:40):

Big news events and stuff. Same

Matt (00:44:42):

Thing

Laci (00:44:42):

Happens when we’re at a conference. A whole hurricane can happen where I live, but I don’t live there now.

Matt (00:44:47):

Right. So they named the ship in the movie The Endurance, which was the same name of the ship that Ernest Shackleford, the famous explorer, took to Antarctica in 1914. And there’s a very famous story about him leaving in 1914 just as World War I is breaking out. He’s on his expedition for two years. When he finally gets reunited with the outside world, he says, “Hey, whatever happened with that war.” And they’re like, “Oh fuck, the war’s still going on. The world’s basically ending. We live in hell right now.” And he’s like, “Oh my God.” I’m

Laci (00:45:17):

Going to go back to Antarctica.

Matt (00:45:19):

So that was like a weird form of time travel. Or that John Mulaney bit about going to Catholic church for the first time in decades and being like, “Did you know they changed it?”

Laci (00:45:27):

And also with you on your spirit.

Matt (00:45:29):

The Lord be with you. No, they don’t say that anymore. Yeah. Something changed and you weren’t there to notice it.

Laci (00:45:35):

Like being in a coma.

Matt (00:45:37):

Nolan says before he writes a script, he writes it down, he gets his typewriter out because of course he does. My typewriter. Shut

Matt (00:45:44):

Up. And writes a couple of paragraphs about what he wants this movie to be. It’s like a declaration of principles or even if it’s not that straightforward, it’s just like, this is what we need to ultimately keep returning to. So that he says these are all such huge productions he doesn’t want to find. He’s drifted too far away from what he originally wanted to do. With Interstellar, he took the unusual step of giving this piece of paper to Hans Zimmer, his composer. This was before he’d even written a script. And he does not tell Zimmer what the movie’s about or even that it’s a space movie. From the Nolan variations, he says, “I called Hans before I even knew I was going to do this project. And I told him, I’m going to bring you an envelope with a letter in it, on a piece of paper.

Matt (00:46:24):

It’s going to tell you the underlying fable at the heart of the film that we’re going to make. It has a couple of lines from the film. It’s the heart of the film. You get one day, just write something and you have to give it to me at the end of the day. And that’ll be the seed from which we can grow the score. We realized we spent so much time on the other films we’d done near the end of the process trying to penetrate the mechanisms we’d created and get back to the heart of the story. This time I thought let’s flip the process. Let’s start with the score and then build out.

Laci (00:46:49):

So interesting.

Matt (00:46:50):

This is my favorite movie score on Zimmer’s interstellar score. My favorite movie score of all time. So when Zimmer gets this assignment, he starts thinking back to a conversation that he and Nolan and Emma Thomas had all had.

Laci (00:47:04):

About Chariots of Fire?

Matt (00:47:05):

About their kids, not Chariots of Fire. One of Nolan’s favorite movies.

Laci (00:47:09):

Well, that’s the soundtracks that he listened to the most often in the dark when he was forced to go to bed at nine or 10 and that his way of escaping and having his own personal interior life was to listen to scores of movies, that one being his favorite. And he fell asleep to it all the time. And that’s where he kind of started to think about how music gets into your dreams. And he said when he started working with Han Zimmerman. Zimmerman?

Matt (00:47:35):

Zimmer.

Laci (00:47:35):

Zimmer. That he said, “This is the starting point. Chariots of Fire. Of the soundtracks I listened to, this is me.” And so start from there with everything you do.

Matt (00:47:48):

I need to watch Chariots of Fire again because I only saw it one time. You just

Laci (00:47:52):

Listened to it.

Matt (00:47:53):

Well, I saw it one time in high school out of obligation because it won Best Picture. And I just remember being like, yeah, it’s one of those boring British movies that no one actually likes, but they’re like, “It looks impressive.”

Laci (00:48:01):

It’s subversive.

Matt (00:48:03):

Subversive, you say?

Laci (00:48:05):

It’s more modern than you expect it to be.

Matt (00:48:09):

Yeah. I’m sure it’s different now, but definitely as a kid and a teenager, especially if a movie’s in theaters, you can listen to the soundtrack and it’s like, “Ooh, I’m seeing the movie again and I don’t have it available here in my home.”

Laci (00:48:20):

I’m not a soundtrack person. I’ve always found that interesting about you. I get it, but I think soundtracks would make me too sad. I use music to make me happy.

Matt (00:48:31):

Yeah. No, you got to try it that way. I got to do

Laci (00:48:33):

Shit. I don’t got to do anything.

Matt (00:48:36):

So thinking about this conversation they were having about their kids, “Zimmer, whose son was then 15 years old, said, once your children are born, you can never look at yourself through your own eyes anymore. You always look at yourself through their eyes.” So Nolan then works that line almost word for word into the movie. So Zimmer has now done the assignment. He’s written a four-minute piece of music and Nolan drives to his house to hear him play it. He made the usual excuses a composer makes when he or she plays something to somebody for the first time. Not looking at Nolan, just staring straight ahead. And then when he was finished, he turned around. He could tell Nolan was moved by it. “I suppose I’d better make the movie now, “said Nolan. “Well, yes, but what is the movie?” Asked Zimmer. And the filmmaker started describing this huge epic tale of space and philosophy and science and humanity.

Matt (00:49:24):

“Chris, hang on. I’ve just written this highly personal thing. “”Yes, but I now know where the heart of the movie is.” It all starts with the music. He doesn’t say, “And I couldn’t find. Did that piece of music make it to the movie?”

Laci (00:49:38):

Yes, of course it did. He’s telling you right there it was the thing they didn’t stray from.

Matt (00:49:44):

But is that note for note in the movie or is that just like a starting point and you could hear a demo where you’d be like, oh, I could see. I’m

Laci (00:49:51):

Nearly positive that it’s the theme part, the part that you like the most where it kicks in.

Matt (00:49:57):

Cornfield Chase.

Laci (00:49:59):

Sure.

Matt (00:49:59):

The other thing Nolan told him was, I want you to use a pipe organ in the score. And Zimmer’s like, “I’ve never done that. That’s cheesy.” And Nolan’s like, “Yeah, but I lived near a Catholic church growing up and it’s the sound of my boyhood. So this is him also time traveling via his movies. How can I recreate my boyhood?”

Laci (00:50:16):

Well, and you don’t expect pipe organ in a sci-fi movie. It earths, I want to say grounds everybody, but you’re supposed to feel homesick the whole time. The whole movie’s about being homesick and not wanting to miss too much. Pipe organ makes a lot of sense.

Matt (00:50:31):

And everybody –

Laci (00:50:31):

Funeral music.

Matt (00:50:32):

If you have criterion channel, there’s a new movie called Blue Heron. Very different movie from what we’re talking about. But I thought this is such an interesting companion to Christopher Nolan because it’s this woman directing a movie and using this movie as sort of time travel to reexamine her own childhood and figure out how she didn’t quite understand what was going on in her and her family’s life. I love that. And Christopher Nolan seems to be doing the same things with his movies. Movies as time travel. One final note about the score is that when the movie came out, there was a lot of hubbub and hullabaloo about the sound mix. I think between The Dark Night Rises, this movie, and then Dunkirk, the next movie, this was firmly the era of you can’t understand a goddamn thing anybody says in these Nolan movies because the music is really, really high up in the interstellar mix.

Matt (00:51:19):

And it was intentional.

Laci (00:51:21):

Yes.

Matt (00:51:22):

And to Nolan, I think with this and Dunkirk especially, it’s like a silent movie.

Laci (00:51:27):

Yes.

Matt (00:51:27):

That’s how this feels. What they’re saying doesn’t matter. But I think that with Interstellar, what Nolan doesn’t understand is it seems like what they’re saying matters a lot. And there’s a lot of exposition and explanation.

Laci (00:51:37):

It doesn’t though, because time doesn’t matter the way it matters anymore. So the individual things that we say and what we think we mean, they change. Your Dr. Mann who totally believes he’s going to do the abnormal thing. And then he gets to a planet and he’s lonely and he becomes a different version of himself. So what does it matter what he said? And when you think of Christopher Nolan as a boy for years with a Walkman on his head, falling asleep too and experiencing his only freedom of the day through complete darkness and only the sound, it makes a lot of sense. He says listening to the soundtracks would make you have to piece together visuals for it. And he liked that the building the images in his mind. He liked being forced to put it together based on the music rather than the images making the music mean something.

Laci (00:52:34):

I said that really.

Matt (00:52:35):

No, I get it. It took me a while to embrace this movie until it eventually clicked for me. I think one of the things is they’re emphasizing real science. They’re saying real science stuff, but that’s beside the point. That’s all part of the texture and the tone of the movie. You don’t even need to understand what they’re saying. No. It’s sort of just ambient. But I think that people hear it and they’re like, “Oh, this must be important. I got to hear what they’re saying and process it.”

Laci (00:53:08):

But then it’s juxtaposed with these very well-trained scientists experiencing the theoretical stuff that they understood when they were on earth. And then they go through all the trainings and the simulations and everything. And then Anne Hathaway has so many powerful points where she’s just like, “This isn’t like what I thought. I thought I understood what this is and it is what it is, but I did not know how it made me feel.” Just the experience. It’s all theoretical until you’re a person who’s only seemingly been on this journey for a few days. And it’s not a few days.

Matt (00:53:46):

When I was 23, I moved to New York very briefly and I said, “I’m going to live in hostels. I’m going to do whatever it takes to make it as a writer.” And I spent one night in a hostel. And when I realized what that meant, I was like, “Never again. Nope. Yeah, you can make all these grand proclamations about what you’re willing to endure until you have to endure it.”

Laci (00:54:04):

Well, and then the kind of person we are is all theoretical. We all have this version of ourself that’s a little bit better than what we are right now or a lot of bit better and has access to things that we don’t have access to now or respect that we don’t now, knowledge. And we think that’s going to feel a kind of way. And then you become it and you just. There’s no way to assume you know who you are.

Matt (00:54:28):

Yeah. I don’t think Matt Damon’s character’s a bad person. I don’t either. And I don’t think the movie condemns him as a bad person. I don’t either. Anyone else would’ve done the exact same thing that he did. Right.

Laci (00:54:37):

There’s just no way to know, truly know what you would do in any situation or what’s best for you when you have to make a big call. You just have to hope. But Matthew McConaughey could have never accepted that he needed to stay at home and be a farmer. He’s telling Murph, tell me not to leave Murph. Make me stay. Make me stay. And he’s telling her to do that because he knows even he can’t make him stay.

Matt (00:55:02):

Yeah.

Laci (00:55:03):

And

Matt (00:55:03):

He would – But she’s saying stay. What’s she going to do? She can’t stay. This cannot be stopped. It’s the law

Laci (00:55:08):

Of nature. And he’d be bored to tears. He would not appreciate what he has. And he was always meant to be a person with a ghost of children and a ghost to his children. He’d just be too bored. Her only choice was to become a scientist. Imagine if you were a fucking farmer. I’m not going back to that.

Matt (00:55:30):

Well, I guess that’s all he. I can be a farmer. I could be a NASA person. That’s about it. I could be a teacher.

Laci (00:55:36):

There’s this dad over here, Michael Kane. I think I’ll hang out with him.

Matt (00:55:40):

Just back to the sound mix. The other thing that’s interesting about this sound mix is there’s way fewer foley sounds, meaning sound effects, but not like sound effects of things you hear in movies that you don’t necessarily pick up. There’s a lot of silence in this movie. When the ship docks, you don’t hear any of the noises, but you will hear things like breathing and you’ll hear the astronauts moving through the spaceship.

Laci (00:56:05):

Because it’s all from their. Yeah, that’s that thing he does where you feel. If I’m hearing the clicking, then he’s putting me outside and I’m more the ship than I am the people. But when you can hear the fucking.

Matt (00:56:20):

And with Tarz and Case, the robots, in 2001 A Space Odyssey, how 9000’s voice is disembodied and it’s directly injected into the sound mix of the movie. Whereas in this movie, it’s almost like you’re hearing the cameras picking up the puppeteers behind the robots speaking. So it’s not like he did any. He’s not boosting the volume. You’re hearing them at the volume the characters would hear them. And that’s something you never see with robots in movies. Yeah, that

Laci (00:56:46):

Is interesting. They are so important to them getting through all the things that they end up getting through. And it’s touching and the humans get really connected. They get really attached. And the robots have to remind them, “Bitch, I don’t care about you.” It’s so human to start to think of things that can talk as things that can feel.

Matt (00:57:14):

Yeah. And they made the very practical choice of these things are form over function or function over form. They’re not supposed to look humanoid. Robots and fiction look like a human, but there’s no reason for that. These are just big blocks.

Laci (00:57:28):

Big

Matt (00:57:29):

Transforming

Laci (00:57:30):

Blocks.

Matt (00:57:30):

You still anthropomorphize them because they’re programmed too.

Laci (00:57:33):

They’re Swiss Army knives.

Matt (00:57:35):

But there’s also something that there’s some pathos to them because they were designed to be military robots and instead they’re doing this. And so the same thing with the Indian Air Force drone. They are

Laci (00:57:47):

McConaughey. This is not what I was programmed

Matt (00:57:49):

To do. Because everything is like, oh, that’s so sad. This Air Force drone is just circling around like a. Oh.

Laci (00:57:54):

Yeah.

Matt (00:57:55):

Just circling around in the air because that’s all it knows how to do. And no one’s ever told it. You don’t have to do this anymore.

Laci (00:58:00):

It’s living its purpose.

Matt (00:58:02):

I’m usually a person who. My philosophy is like if I miss something in a movie, it doesn’t matter. Keep going. If I don’t hear something, somebody says, it doesn’t matter. And I’m like, I’m almost always right.

Laci (00:58:12):

How would I even go about proving that?

Matt (00:58:16):

But I think Nolan thinks that too. If you don’t hear a character, it’s okay. You’re still going to follow

Laci (00:58:20):

The group.

Matt (00:58:22):

Nevertheless, and I love McConaughey, but man, he is so glow and deep in the mix of what he said. Sometimes feel like when you’re raising a kid.

Laci (00:58:33):

And he’s like the King of the Hill episode where they go to visit Peggy’s family in fucking –

Matt (00:58:41):

Montana.

Laci (00:58:42):

Montana. And all that Peggy’s dad ever says is, “I never did meet a sunrise that I could.” It’s always a fucking old cowboy thing. And that’s all he fucking does. It’s not till Anne Hathaway takes his helmet and puts her helmet against his helmet that really humanizes him all of a sudden. And it’s after they’ve already been through a lot of shit, but he’s doing something really brave or he just saved her ass or whatever. But they’re so in it together. And she just takes his helmet and it’s like, “I love you.” And it’s like, “Okay, boop. Matthew’s a fucking human again.”

Matt (00:59:17):

And that’s when Laci said, “They better fuck in this movie.” They still better fuck. They do not fuck. I mean, presumably they will when he finds her. But yeah, not in a Nolan movie. But I will tell you, yeah, Love Anne Hathaway in this movie. Love. It’s my favorite performance from both of them. If you want to see them, fuck, watch the movie Serenity.

Laci (00:59:31):

Ooh. Doing it. How is it?

Matt (00:59:35):

It’s a

Laci (00:59:36):

Good sex scene or?

Matt (00:59:37):

It’s good. I keep thinking we should – Is

Laci (00:59:39):

She naked? Is there some side tit? What’s going on?

Matt (00:59:42):

You see his butt a lot. Well,

Laci (00:59:43):

Yeah, but he’s always butt out. He’s

Matt (00:59:46):

Always been pro.

Laci (00:59:47):

She just doesn’t seem like someone that would have to give up some titty.

Matt (00:59:51):

Brokeback Mountain, you see her tits.

Laci (00:59:54):

Big areolas or.

Matt (00:59:55):

I don’t remember. No, I think you can see her naked. And

Laci (01:00:00):

Hey.

Matt (01:00:01):

Anyway, McConaughey, the McConnaissance. On the scene where Cooper watches the messages, the very devastating moment in the movie where it’s like when you’ve been ignoring your phone for two days and then turn it back on. Oh God. Oh no. Oh no. Or you wake up and you see the group thread has a 128 unread messages. This is Nolan talking. “I talked to Matthew about it a lot and the way he wanted to do it was we filmed all of the messages in advance. I don’t want to use visual effects to put them in. But what he wanted to do was not to see them until he shot the scene and started his closeup. What he was doing was right on the edge of being too real because he was experiencing it in a real way as a father. And I think one of the takes might have actually been beyond it.

Matt (01:00:45):

It’s one of the great fascinations I have with acting. I sit there and I watch them eye to eye, not on the monitor, just glancing at the monitor for framing because it’s my job to try and experience it as an audience member to try to be open to what they’re feeling. And there’s often a point where they’re so raw and so open that you can actually disconnect from them because it’s too overwhelming. It’s too much and you feel you’re intruding.

Laci (01:01:06):

Yes. Yes. That’s a perfect way to put it. I shouldn’t be seeing. You need a minute. Yeah. It scares me about actors. It’s why I can only imagine the Christian Bale way of acting is to just totally become it. To be the

Matt (01:01:24):

Person. McConaughey has several moments in this movie where he just does things where I do think, how did you think to do that when he sort of waves at the baby that he sees on screen just for a second?

Laci (01:01:39):

He truly just. I mean, you would do it.

Matt (01:01:42):

Yeah.

Laci (01:01:43):

It’s almost so perfect that it can’t be acting and it turns out it really isn’t. I mean, he’s in that moment. The reason why he is so specific as to how he wants to take in all this is because he knows he needs to method that part. It sounds like he can be one type of actor really, really well, turn it on, charm, get it done. But when he needs to dip into his emotions, he probably needs to really transpose himself into the situation.

Matt (01:02:14):

Well, okay. Brad

Laci (01:02:16):

Pitt needs an apple. He needs daughter needs food. You know what I mean? It’s all he ever fucking done.

Matt (01:02:22):

Well, when his career had a dip, he said it was –

Laci (01:02:26):

McConaughey or Brad?

Matt (01:02:26):

Yeah, McConaughey said it was his fault because he didn’t say because acting requires too much of me, but he seems like, “Well, I was really happy and enjoying my lifestyle, and so happy to kind of coast and do these not great movies for a while.” What are the

Laci (01:02:40):

Not great movies? Because I love how to lose. Nope. 10 Things I hate about you.

Matt (01:02:46):

No, 10 to lose a guy in 1 days. 10 Things I Hate About Wedding. Yes. Yes. Okay. So McConaughey bursts, explodes in the ’90s with Days and Confused, and then he gets huge roles in contact in Steven Spielberg’s Amistad, but then gets stuck in this cycle and then people start to hate him and think like, “Oh, he’s always played the Sink Zachs. Oh, hey, yeah.”

Laci (01:03:07):

What about in the big short?

Matt (01:03:09):

That’s way later.

Laci (01:03:10):

Oh.

Matt (01:03:10):

So I’m talking about the 2000s. How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days is a hit and then he makes a ton of other rom-coms. Yeah.

Laci (01:03:18):

Failure to launch was a little bit.

Matt (01:03:20):

No, but you know what? I bet if we watch Failure to Launch or any of these now, we’d be like, “This is great. What are you talking about?”

Laci (01:03:24):

He’s great in everything.

Matt (01:03:25):

Yeah.

Laci (01:03:25):

Yes. He is a charm bomb.

Matt (01:03:27):

But he’s also doing these action star vehicles like Sahara that don’t connect. And again, he says, “Just enjoying myself a little too much, man. But then decides I’m really going to dedicate myself to. I’m going to challenge myself.” So Magic Mike in 2012, and the same year he has this movie Mud. And Nolan says that’s the movie that made him cast him.

Laci (01:03:47):

Does he play a gay person in Mud?

Matt (01:03:49):

No, that’s Dallas Buyers Club, which is the next year that’s what he wins the Oscar for. And also True Detective season one. Now everybody’s like, “Oh, I love Matthew McConaugheyHe’s so great. I never realized how wonderful he is.” But

Laci (01:04:01):

I was there for the run. I mean, I love rom-coms, so I never had a dip. Plus I met him anytime I’ve met a celebrity.

Matt (01:04:07):

When did you meet Matthew McConaugh?

Laci (01:04:08):

In the Abbott Simpsons & Kuchler building, the top floor was our law firm. The bottom floor was a recording studio. So a lot of voice work happened there. And so celebrities would randomly pop out. And he did and he signed autographs. I took a picture with his butt. He’s turned around doing an autograph and I’m like.

Matt (01:04:27):

So not the actual butt.

Laci (01:04:28):

No. That’s why I said he’s always butt out. But no, he gave me. I have his signature in a shoebox up there and it just says. It says the thing he says and he signs every autograph with this. Keep on living, just keep living. It’s something that his dad told him and he fit it in one of his movies. Keep on keeping on? No, it’s something more profound than that, but it’s very McConaughey.

Matt (01:04:54):

Yeah. His Oscar acceptance speech. Go watch that if you want to be like jackoff motion. Oh,

Laci (01:04:59):

Okay.

Matt (01:05:00):

But he’s so sincere about it too. He’s like, “I want to thank myself because every day I wake up and I look at myself and I say,” You can be better than this, man. You can keep on pushing yourself, man.

Laci (01:05:09):

“Okay. Keep is in there and I’m telling you it’s his thing. So he probably said it in the speech.

Matt (01:05:14):

Interstellar, as we keep saying with Nolan, he gets the actors at just the right moment. So this was like, oh yeah, perfect timing. Not

Laci (01:05:20):

He. Not he. It turns out it’s his wife who is this uncanny. She is the one who does the casting. She’s got her fucking pussy on the pulse.

Matt (01:05:28):

All right. Well, good job, Emma. And let’s not forget the casting directors, name unknown in this movie. But it’s just something we’ve noted where. Oh, that’s great. That’s perfect. Yes, Matthew Conaghy right now as the McConnaissance comes to its end. I fully subscribe to Matt Chrisman’s prediction that when America falls to a military dictatorship one day, that Matthew McConaughey will be put in charge as the civilian face of the military dictatorship. He’s the president because everybody’s like, “Yeah, I feel good about this. This is fine.” Wait,

Laci (01:05:58):

Who said this?

Matt (01:06:00):

Matt Christman from Chopo Trap House. It’s like it’s the inevitable thing that’s going to happen to America as a military dictatorship. But they’re going to make it look friendly.

Laci (01:06:08):

Right because Bill Pullman’s not available.

Matt (01:06:10):

Bill Pullman would be great, but it doesn’t look like he looked in the ’90s.

Laci (01:06:14):

Okay, I’m just going Independence Day, but like a Randy Quaid really.

Matt (01:06:17):

Yeah. They could get a Randy Quaid right now.

Laci (01:06:22):

It’s just keep living.

Matt (01:06:24):

Just keep living.

Laci (01:06:25):

Yeah. I was like, wait, that’s too Dory. But no, she took it from him.Just keep swimming.

Matt (01:06:33):

You know what I always hated about Dori?

Laci (01:06:35):

She forgets things.

Matt (01:06:37):

It’s like she keeps forgetting everything. And I’m like, quit forgetting, idiot. It’s that in finding Nemo, she goes, just keep swimming. Just keep swimming. And in finding Dori, she goes, “Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming.”

Laci (01:06:49):

That fucking twat.

Matt (01:06:50):

She forgot the cadence, the delivery of her.

Laci (01:06:53):

Yeah. And this is Memento Mori. You should remember old new thing. Dammit. She remembers new things only, Matt. No, her shit does not make sense. She doesn’t remember her family. But she can remember if you’re around her enough, I guess. We have no time to discuss Ellen DeGeneres.

Matt (01:07:16):

So this movie comes out in 2014, makes a ton of money, $775 worldwide.

Laci (01:07:21):

$775, really?

Matt (01:07:23):

Yes. Sorry. $775 million worldwide. And the reviews, again, were very good, but they were still like. It wasn’t quite the. Almost orgasmed, but didn’t.

Laci (01:07:36):

This is why I don’t letterbox these movies right after I see them. I know I need a minute. I think even some of them say that. However, this one, I felt good right away. But is it that I’m starting to talk Nolan? I can’t separate the two. Maybe I get it now.

Matt (01:07:55):

But I think for me, a letterbox rating is exactly. How do I feel this exact second I’m done with the movie? That’s all it means.

Laci (01:08:01):

But how useful is that?

Matt (01:08:03):

I don’t know. Why would anyone need that? It’s a diary. It’s literally a diary. Then

Laci (01:08:06):

Why is everyone reading it?

Matt (01:08:08):

Yeah, I know. Yeah. When people will say, “How could you give this thing this many stars?”

Laci (01:08:12):

That was the path.

Matt (01:08:13):

That’s a

Laci (01:08:13):

Whole other fucking guy.

Matt (01:08:15):

So again, it’s his highest rated movie on Letterboxd. Can you guess number two?

Laci (01:08:19):

It’s got to be a Batman, right?

Matt (01:08:21):

No, it’s Oppenheimer.

Laci (01:08:23):

All

Matt (01:08:24):

Right. Earlier this year, Timothy Chalamet and Christopher Nolan did a little panel event where they introduced. They did a screening of Interstellar. And Nolan was talking about critics being a little hesitant about the movie. He said, “It was a little bit sniffy. Some of the responses were a bit sniffy from critics and a little from audiences. It made very good money around the world, particularly. There was a sense of people not quite being. It sounds egotistical to say they weren’t ready, but they weren’t ready for it from me. I had some producer anonymously say of me, he is a cold guy who makes cold films. Then it sort of stuck on me for several projects. The reason I was attracted to my brother’s first act of Interstellar is because it’s about family and humanity and it’s deeply emotional. That’s the film I wanted to make.

Matt (01:09:07):

It’s a film that wears its heart on its sleeve. Chalamet told Nolan that it kills me that you didn’t feel that love writing right away.” Adding, “This movie makes me weep more than anything.” And then at the same event, Chalamet said. I thought. Despite learning that his role was smaller, he says it’s his favorite movie he’s ever been in. He’s watched it more than he’s watched any other movie.

Matt (01:09:30):

In the Nolan variations, the author, Tom Schoen, does not seem to like Interstellar that much. And he compiled a list. If you were on the internet in 2014, as I was, not to brag, 30 big plotholes in Interstellar. Who did this? Oh my God. Oh, everybody. If you wrote online, you had to write about

Laci (01:09:49):

This.

Matt (01:09:50):

And he decides, I’m going to present some of these to Nolan. This is my big chance. And the one he says is. Our stance about plotholes is who cares? It’s the least interesting way

Laci (01:10:00):

To engage with a movie. Unless I notice it, then. No, no, no. If I’ve noticed it, then it’s distracting to the point that we need to address it. Otherwise, I don’t care. If it takes away from the movie –

Matt (01:10:12):

I agree, but everyone thinks that. Everyone thinks that.

Laci (01:10:15):

No, no, no, no, no, no. People like fucking cinema sins or whatever are specifically looking at a movie too nitpick. That’s different.

Matt (01:10:24):

And there’s this awful thing where because cinema sins, because there’s so many YouTube channels that are so successful, it trains audiences to watch movies that way with their detective lenses now. They

Laci (01:10:33):

Want to be the first person to fucking tweet or TikTok. Did anyone else notice this? Watch and they’re filming their TV with their phone. Boring.

Matt (01:10:43):

And this drives Nolan crazy.

Laci (01:10:45):

Good.

Matt (01:10:45):

And he just did an interview last week where he talked about how he finds it annoying that people. He’s talking about amateur critics. He might be talking about us.

Laci (01:10:57):

It’s a scourge upon our fucking world that now all of a sudden everyone’s a food critic, everyone’s a movie critic. I mean, we have always said we’re going to review the movie because we’re going to talk about it. But who fucking cares what we think?

Matt (01:11:11):

Yeah, you shouldn’t care

Laci (01:11:11):

What we think. If anything, being on TikTok, doing this podcast, what I have learned is it does not, unless there is a collective agreement that something’s just really, really good, there’s no one individual person that can sign off on anything. And that means I’m going to like it or not like it. Even you won’t get me there all

Matt (01:11:32):

100%

Laci (01:11:33):

Of the time.

Matt (01:11:34):

Yeah. And I’ve never been trying to persuade anybody to like something or not something. Or that something’s good. But what I am trying to do is both of us are trying to make you laugh and have fun discussing something and trying to think a little bit more deeply about something. And that often involves saying what works and what doesn’t work.

Laci (01:11:53):

For us personally.

Matt (01:11:55):

Yeah. And

Laci (01:11:56):

At the end of the day, who gives a fuck?

Matt (01:11:58):

No, you shouldn’t give a fuck.

Laci (01:12:00):

You should see any movie that you think you should see. There is no movie not worth it. They are all miracles. And even a bad movie, you will walk away being smarter for having seen it.

Matt (01:12:12):

What he pointed out was amateur critics pointing out story decisions that they feel are contrived. And he’s basically said, “It’s not that it’s contrived. You’ve learned now that there are rules for storytelling. Just because you recognize that something is there to serve the plot. That doesn’t make it bad. Just because you have a name for it doesn’t make it bad.”

Laci (01:12:32):

Exactly. And because it is a plot and we want the plot to work. So we need to serve it. Just because all of a sudden you can sort of see how the storytelling might’ve needed to go. Let’s just go, I don’t know, and skip over that part. He is very smart at where he puts that moment because he doesn’t do it so often that you can’t forgive it when he does. Something convenient.

Matt (01:13:01):

I

Laci (01:13:01):

Mean, he’s made a mistake or two in every single movie where it’s like, oh, come on.

Matt (01:13:06):

Sean was complaining about the aliens at the end of the movie who are just humans of the future and that it seems awfully convenient. He calls it a Dausex Machina ending that Cooper goes through the black hole and then wow, ends up in a time library built just for him. That seems mighty convenient. And Nolan says, “But it’s been set up since the very beginning of the movie.” They say it very early on in the movie. And I think that that’s kind of the Nolan thing. It’s a magic trick and which parts are you paying attention to? And which parts do you need to take seriously? Because this whole thing is, he’s led to this NASA by gravity and stuff. And so he says, “They go back and forth and Nolan’s getting frustrated with Sean.” And what he says is, “What I’ve found is the people who let the film wash over them get the most out of it.

Matt (01:13:59):

They’re not approaching it like it’s a crossword puzzle or like they’re going to get a test afterward. Certainly online, my films are held to a weirdly high standard in terms of plot contrivances. I don’t really know why that is. In a way, I suppose it should be a compliment.” And we’ve suggested why we think that is, why people talk about his movies that way.

Laci (01:14:20):

Because they are work. I did watch the first few as though I was going to take a test and then felt annoyed that there wasn’t one. And that’s why I’m saying maybe I’ve been nolofied. I don’t know. But he doesn’t make a simple movie. I don’t know. They all got some. Except for the Batman ones, it’s like there’s nothing straightforward about his stuff. So because it keeps you on your toes, you think that he’s thought it through every single thing. But you think he’s thought through every single thing you’re seeing on the screen. And what he’s thinking through is how he wants you to feel and what aspects of humanity he wants to really explore. It’s just the vehicle of it is space. And so space fucking nerds are going to be like, “But what about all the space?You’re missing the point.”

Laci (01:15:13):

Space doesn’t matter if there aren’t humans there to fucking observe it. I mean, who gives a shit what a black hole does if it doesn’t mean the black hole does something to a human? We are humans. We are all little nolans who can only experience our experience. So when I hear about plan B and plan B is all these fucking humans in a jar that are going to then go live on the, “Well, we couldn’t save the earth humans, so here’s all these.” Well, what are you saving? I’m off on a tangent. I don’t even know if it connects what I was just saying, but I hate plan B because those aren’t even human. Those aren’t even earthlings. They have no connection to us. They were born in a weird fucking planet and all they know is each other.

Matt (01:15:52):

That’s another thing that this movie is getting at is why should you care about who you care about? Yes. But you’re definitively saying, no, you shouldn’t. And I think the movie would not accept that as.

Laci (01:16:01):

I think he thinks plan B is stupid. It is completely useless. All it does is make those a few people who are on that planet like fucking gods. And why do they get to do that? That’s not fair. They got all these people that are going to teach how to be humans and buckaroo. Why? Why are we so special that we should survive? Who cares? If it’s not about the people and the consciousness that exists right now who are going to feel pain because they don’t get taken to the next place, who fucking cares?

Matt (01:16:25):

It’s

Laci (01:16:25):

About abortion. Abort those fucking fetuses.

Matt (01:16:30):

You’ve revealed yourself as a poison ivy ecoterrorist. What do they call it when you think plant life is superior to animal life or whatever? The planet, we deserve to die.

Laci (01:16:43):

No, no. That’s why the Cooper station makes it, it is the only thing that makes sense. We are carrying on something we can see and touch. We are simple. It is hard to think generationally. I only want to fix the generations after me because I think I’m related to some of those motherfuckers out there. I’m sorry. I know that that’s not the most ethical way, but it is the part of humans that pulls us through these, making an effort to do these hard things.

Matt (01:17:17):

And you will hear some charlatans out there who’ve gotten very well paid, and they probably end up on podcasts like the Ezra Klein show in the New York Times who are like, “I’m thinking in terms of billions of years, what are people going to be like two billion years from now? And all of that is just a way of like,” Hey, let all the billionaires of the world do whatever they want right now.

Laci (01:17:36):

“That’s right.

Matt (01:17:36):

So yes, I agree. It’s good to care about the people you are immediately

Laci (01:17:41):

Connected to. I was also immediately skeptical of who the fuck got on Coop Station. You can’t tell me that that thing holds all of Earth’s creatures or maybe there’s more than one of those stations. Fine. There’s no fucking. Is it a lottery? Who ended up there? We are not special. Humans are not so special that they need to survive even if they’re completely disconnected from the humans right here and right now and all the history we made here. Humans, just the look of us. And you put them on another planet and they’re completely disconnected from this. I can’t think of a less fucking interesting thing than that. Who cares? There’s plenty of other organisms that are way more adept at surviving in other places. We are not the perfect little vessels.

Matt (01:18:25):

Shouldn’t you just send some animals up there?

Laci (01:18:27):

Yes. Send something that’s more adaptable. Send our best shit up there. Telescripts.

Matt (01:18:34):

I do agree with you. But what if you sent two adults and they raised all the kids? They

Laci (01:18:42):

Are there, Matt. The scientists are there to raise all the kids.

Matt (01:18:45):

Yeah. So then there is some continuity.

Laci (01:18:46):

Yeah, but then they’re gods. Those guys are not so special that they should pass on the entire human existence. Also, they’re going to be like, all the kids who fucking grew up after Katrina, after nine eleven, how much does it matter to them? Do you want to know how much I cared about the JFK assassination until I though it was like a fucking CIA plot? Not at all. It doesn’t fucking affect me. I don’t know those people. The ’70s are none of my business. And it only took one generation for me to not give a fuck. And I feel it when I’m talking about my nine eleven story to my kid. I could feel they’re jerking off their invisible deck. And I don’t blame them. It is so hard to think. It’s barely reasonable enough to think of your own capacity to live a life, let alone, oh, now I got to care about two decades this way and two decades.

Laci (01:19:36):

No, thank you. But can I think of my kid in their 40s? Yes, I can. And do I want them to be in a dust bowl? I do not. That I can do.

Matt (01:19:46):

And the movie’s making the argument that’s a reasonable way of thinking it’s how we’re programmed to think. And it’s a survivor instinct.

Laci (01:19:56):

Any other way is completely egotistical and just not. It’s making the earthling way more important than we actually are. We’re only important in the story that we’ve shared together here. If we all move to another planet, that’s fucking interesting. But not if we don’t all go. Or even like a giant, whatever, even if it’s all the billionaires, fuck it. At least that’s something. At least those are earthlings. This skin suit and our brain capacity is not so impressive that it needs to live on. It fucking doesn’t.

Matt (01:20:35):

Nolan complaining about people pointing out plotholes, being plothole detectives. I think big part of it is he became the most popular filmmaker as YouTube and Rose. And in an earlier generation, movie critics got professional training and then worked at newspapers. And when you are first starting to think about movies, the first thing you think about is plot. And then you kind of move beyond that and start thinking about other things like visuals and sound. But it’s just kind of the lowest hanging fruit of, here’s what doesn’t work about this movie. It doesn’t make any damn sense that he’s floating out Iron Spice.

Laci (01:21:10):

I also think it’s a mistake to think of one movie in a vacuum. I think you should be thinking of a collection of work. Where is he in his career and what has he contributed and how has he evolved?

Matt (01:21:19):

And how is this in dialogue with – It’s

Laci (01:21:20):

So much more interesting. I’m not judging the Odyssey by itself. I can’t. I’m thinking of it as this couldn’t have existed without Interstellar and Inception and all the things that came before it in that man’s life, his childhood and his experiences. They couldn’t exist.

Matt (01:21:38):

Yeah. And he made this movie knowing 2001 A Space Odyssey exists. And So Lauris exists and Chariots of Fire exists and all these other movies exist. And this movie’s in dialogue with all of those other movies. And there is a thing called context that needs to be considered. But it’s like how people will be like, everybody’s complaining that there’s a black guy in Star Wars, but in 1980, no one cared that there was a black guy in Star Wars and a woman in Star Wars. And the thing is, if the internet had been around in 1980, he probably would’ve. You just didn’t hear

Laci (01:22:08):

About it then. Okay, maybe. But identity politics has really surged once people realized that is something that got people enraged enough to internet. That’s the feedback loop of the

Matt (01:22:18):

Internet.

Laci (01:22:19):

I just see what you’re saying. But that was a really interesting part of the book too. And it has nothing to do with the movie, but he said that he’s from the ’70s. That’s when everyone found it very obvious that we were leaving religion behind and the future was all about science. It wasn’t a left or a liberal thing or a bad thing to think that way. In the ’70s, people were all about computers and space and this is it. This is where we’re going. And he’s like, so it’s so odd to me that two decades later, it’s like, that’s not cool, man. It’s all about religion and about. And then he said it, and then he’s starting to think they might have more to do with each other than we ever really. I don’t know. Maybe we’re praying to us.

Matt (01:23:06):

John Lifkow does tell them you’re praying to the dust in your room. You’re just praying to yourself. That is what the internet is, is we’re just recycling. We’re just eating our own droppings, regurgitating all the stuff so that we can. The dream of every nerd on the internet is to live the life Cooper lives at the end of Interstellar where they recreated his farmhouse. But they don’t want the farmhouse. They want the house from Gremlins or they want the millennial Falcon.

Laci (01:23:30):

I love how bored he is. He left

Matt (01:23:31):

One. And he’s like, “This sucks. This is stupid.”

Laci (01:23:33):

What the fuck am I doing?

Matt (01:23:34):

This is so bogus. Yeah. And if they ever actually got that, they too would not be satisfied. Because it’s

Laci (01:23:41):

Not what you think it is. It’s a simulation in your brain that you have no idea what the person who lives there is actually going to feel about it. And it’s just a little bit wrong, right? Because his house just has TVs everywhere for some fucking reason. And

Matt (01:23:54):

There’s no dust.

Laci (01:23:55):

Right. And there’s no family. It’s like he wasn’t attached to the stuff in this house. He was attached that this house and this stuff had a history. This was my wife’s. This one came from. I remember buying that at the store and we got in a fight over that. I remember that. This is just replicas of things you don’t even understand the history of. Not earthlings on planet fuck face. Yeah, you can’t replace me. Okay. All right.

Matt (01:24:20):

Looking forward to now talking about Interstellar. This episode will be five hours long. Look forward to it. But if you’re near Gargantua, it’ll only be 10 minutes. So this movie, Interstellar, we’re traveling all over the freaking universe. Can you imagine the sights we’re going to see first up a bookshelf with dust falling down on it? But I love. No, you got to go to the Dust Depot out in the Rishi Maze. Dust falling in these little toy spaceships and Interstellar. Ooh. And then we hear Ellen Burston’s voice. Well, my dad was a farmer like everybody else back then. Did

Laci (01:25:16):

You watch the Dust Bowl documentary? I immediately knew what they were doing. I mean, because I’ve seen it. Yeah. And I really liked it. I want to say it’s a Ken Burns.

Matt (01:25:24):

It is Ken Burns. What I didn’t know is these are outtakes other than Ellen Burston. These are not actual foot. This isn’t footage that made it to the final cut. But it’s such a clever idea. But it’s one of those things where you may not immediately clock that the world here is ending, but we’re seeing that they survived this. We’re being shown right away. Oh. Yeah.

Laci (01:25:46):

He does that. He does that. Well, that’s fine. But you could also say that, oh, this is footage of the fact that this had happened before. This is a documentary of the first time a dust bowl was created. But it’s very clever to say, look, you guys already know what happened. Or you guys already understand this is possible and that it was devastating to this region. What if it were all regions? It wasn’t because a crop wouldn’t grow, but because crops wouldn’t grow, right? The original dust bowl, it wasn’t just one.

Matt (01:26:23):

I don’t know much about the original dust bowl, but it’s –

Laci (01:26:29):

I thought it was a drought thing that turned all the –

Matt (01:26:33):

Let’s go with that.

Laci (01:26:33):

Mud into dust.

Matt (01:26:35):

And what’s happening here on the earth, and this is a very unspecific apocalypse. Nolan made the conscious decision. We’re not going to explain very much. There’s not going to be news reports to be like, “In the 21st century first, there were the water wars or whatever.”

Laci (01:26:52):

You found out enough though. And I feel like ever since anyone investigated honey and the honeybee, anyone who’s learned about that understands how related every single possible thing on this earth is to each other. And to kill one thing is just a domino effect. So I think it’s the potato or whatever. They make it clear that there’s a certain crop that just, it does not exist anymore. And then now in the year that we’re witnessing, it’s also happening to cabbage. It’s just one

Matt (01:27:21):

By one. Yeah. So okra, that’s the last harvest for okra ever. And then – How’d you know that? Luckily we still got a lot of corn. And then Michael Cain’s like, “The corn will fail too, just like everything.” Like a potato in Ireland. It’s one of these apocalypses that’s very easy to wrap your head around because it seems so mundane. And to make this future that looks so much like the 1930s, I think is such an inspired idea.

Laci (01:27:45):

Yes. And just brilliant to be like, you know who’s going to thrive in this future? And really it’s the only track in school at all. We need farmers. We need people who wanted to go to school for higher learning to become all kinds of fancy shit and farm. Literally, if you don’t get an A minus and higher, you’re on the farm track. I don’t care what you are hoping to be. And even if you are brilliant, there’s still not a lot of things to do with that.

Matt (01:28:15):

Right. And the entire history of humanity, most of human history, we didn’t have societies. We were hunter gatherers. And then at some point agriculture gets invented and all of a sudden there’s a little bit of surplus time to do things like accumulate knowledge. And that’s how things advance. And this is like we’re going backwards and stripping away and stripping away until all we have is we got a farm and eventually we’ll lose that too. We

Laci (01:28:38):

Can’t even. No. Now we’re mud people. Now we got a rock. Get in the quarry, eat these rocks. That’s the next step.

Matt (01:28:49):

Stone. Then it becomes the Flintstones. Yeah. But my father was a farmer like everybody else back then. Of course, he didn’t start that way. And we see him flying a plane, getting all cockeyed and ejecting from his plane. And I love what you said that this is like his death and this is when he becomes a ghost.

Laci (01:29:04):

I mean for emotional soul, the soul of him, what energized him? That was definitely the first death. And then when his wife died, he’s like, “Nope. Fuck this.”

Matt (01:29:15):

My wife is dead.

Laci (01:29:17):

They don’t explain

Matt (01:29:17):

How she died. It wasn’t me. She had cancer in her brain. We would’ve found the cyst in her brain from the MRI. At some point there were food wars or whatever. And it’s like, so John Lithgow’s life was pretty normal. Then Matthew McConaughey’s life was war and famine. And then things have improved. So we’re seeing things on the upswing.

Laci (01:29:37):

Interesting. The lull of post-war times and how futile it all was because even if you won crops or whatever you can imagine happened during a food war, those are dying too. So

Matt (01:29:51):

Even

Laci (01:29:51):

If you’re the hero of that war, it’s coming for all of us.

Matt (01:29:56):

But I love the movie showing the human urge to just like Get back to normal. Let’s do the things we used to do. Let’s have a baseball game. And even him training to be an Air Force pilot or an astronaut or whatever, that itself is like he’s cosplaying an earlier era. Why are you doing this? What’s

Laci (01:30:14):

The point of this? And then proceeding to be upset by it. Sorry there’s no NASA. Why did you train to be a NASA? Right. A

Matt (01:30:21):

Nissan.

Laci (01:30:21):

That’s

Matt (01:30:22):

What they call him. Nissan? That’s when you’re a NASA

Laci (01:30:25):

Pilot?

Matt (01:30:25):

Specifically,

Laci (01:30:26):

Right. And SpaceX,

Matt (01:30:27):

That’s different. And then at the end of the movie, when he’s in the fake farmhouse, he’s like, “Nah, I don’t like this in one bit at all.”

Laci (01:30:32):

He never liked it. And this is big fuck you from his daughter and I think that’s hilarious. He loves this place. Completely recreated.

Matt (01:30:40):

So he wakes up from his dream and his daughter Murph comes in. He’s like, “Dad, were you flying in your dream again like always?”He’s

Laci (01:30:46):

Immediately like, “Fuck off.” He’s not at all interested in entertaining this midnight visit. Piss off Murph.

Matt (01:30:53):

Young Murph is played by Mackenzie Foy, Renesme from Twilight, Breaking Dawn part two. She’s of course also been in the Nutcracker in the four realms. Of course,

Laci (01:31:03):

In Black Beauty, don’t forget.

Matt (01:31:04):

She is known for portraying Cindy Peron in the conjuring universe. We’re not

Laci (01:31:08):

Reading Wikipedia at all. And

Matt (01:31:10):

She’s a practitioner of TaeKwonDo.

Laci (01:31:11):

Hello.

Matt (01:31:13):

And she’s still in stuff, it seems like. Oh, maybe not. Oh. Maybe just cameos in the conjuring movies. But she’s so good in this movie as Young Murph and such an important role and great that they. She incredibly plays a person who grows into Jessica Chastain and then into Ellen Burston. But she’s got this ghost. Dad, I though you were the host. There’s no such thing as garsh. We’re seeing more of the Ken Burns thing about all the things we had to do back then. The dust on the table. Your

Laci (01:31:50):

Plate’s upside down and you covered your butt when you peed or whatever.

Matt (01:31:55):

Cover your butt.

Laci (01:31:55):

You don’t want to get dusty asshole.

Matt (01:31:58):

And one of the things that they’re showing is them wiping off the laptop and then opening the lid. And this is kind of like a James Cameron and avatar thing of like the technology will advance in the future. That doesn’t mean things aren’t still going to suck shit. So just because you have a laptop doesn’t mean it helps you at all, but it’s – You

Laci (01:32:17):

Got to jerk off. Got

Matt (01:32:19):

To do something. Yeah. Got to

Laci (01:32:20):

Look at those dust bunnies. This family, we

Matt (01:32:21):

Got – Why

Laci (01:32:23):

Wouldn’t that be the name of the porn? Why don’t

Matt (01:32:25):

You like that? I didn’t realize the picture meant. They’ve been literally looking at dust

Laci (01:32:30):

Bunnies. No,

Matt (01:32:31):

That’s

Laci (01:32:31):

What they’d call them, like

Matt (01:32:33):

Playboy

Laci (01:32:33):

Bunnies, but they’re dust bunnies because it’s in there of the Dust Bowl. Yeah. Yeah,

Matt (01:32:37):

You’re right. You right. It’s beautiful.

Laci (01:32:39):

Okay.

Matt (01:32:41):

Mark that. They said they have the internet in this movie. I wrote a short story called Thirsty, which you can buy on Amazon. And it is, I mean, I will say it is so much has lifted from this section of the movie. Thief. Yeah. Just the idea of the world has ended and now we’re trying to pretend like we’re moving on and the internet comes back, but there’s very little to do on the internet because all the websites were on servers that got destroyed by meteors.

Laci (01:33:07):

Well, and for businesses and entities that no longer exist.

Matt (01:33:11):

And then when they do the – A

Laci (01:33:12):

Lot of 404s.

Matt (01:33:14):

Exactly. Yes. So this family unit, we have Donald is played by John Lithgow. He’s Cooper’s father-in-law. Cooper, Joseph Cooper. I tried to find out where in the movie he is called Joseph. Couldn’t find it, but he is listed in the official script as Joseph Coop Cooper.

Laci (01:33:30):

I mean, you know it’s his last name. It’s military. Yeah,

Matt (01:33:31):

I know. It’s just they never say Joseph or Joe. Joey.

Laci (01:33:35):

Why don’t you go Cooper?

Matt (01:33:38):

Timothy Chalamet in one of his first roles is as young Tom McKenzie Foy as Murphy. And Murphy’s like, “Dad, there’s a ghost in my bedroom.” And he’s like, “Well, Murphy, that’s not very scientific. You got to do the scientific method. Ask the right questions. Take some documentation. You know what I’m saying?” She’s like, “I love you, daddy.” And he’s like, “All right.”

Laci (01:33:55):

He is a pill. I mean, until he starts. Breakfast table, Cooper can fuck right off. And it makes sense why he didn’t want to sit there to begin with. I’m sorry, Don. I’m not good at breakfast table. Don’t make me do it. Okay, you’re making me do it. He

Matt (01:34:11):

Just

Laci (01:34:11):

Keeps getting shoved into these roles he doesn’t want to do and keeps trying to bust out of them, even if it doesn’t mak

Matt (01:34:16):

Sense. But he does a good job. His father-in-law tells him like, “Come on now, you got to pay more attention to your daughter.” And so he does get down and connect with her.

Laci (01:34:24):

I mean, fine, but it doesn’t happen at that table. He’s just a hard ass and he’s annoyed. He’s unhappy. He loves his kids, but he’s unhappy. And that shows, that comes through.

Matt (01:34:35):

I mean, do you think that the kids don’t like him?

Laci (01:34:37):

Oh, they idolize him, but I think the older one has gotten an understanding of how limited his dad is. And maybe because he’s raised by a person who’s a little bit limited in the mushy stuff, he’s turned out to be a lot like his dad. Runs on a little less. Just a firm handshake before you go save the world and die. I don’t need anything else, dad. And maybe it’s implied she’s more like the mom or his good side.

Matt (01:35:05):

Well, but it’s clear that you can connect to this guy if you talk to him about stuff he’s into.

Laci (01:35:11):

100%. And a lot of narcissistic fathers are like that. A lot of our narcissistic people are like that. The point in Murph being the age that she is, is she’s still the age of someone who’s really into their parents and hasn’t been old enough yet to see that this might be a little abusive, a little neglectful, a little this, a little that. The things that you start to find out when you’re a teenager and you start to separate and become more independent. Jesse, fucking Joseph, what is his name? Tom. Tom. He’s already found out what track he’s going down. He’s a farmer. He’s a farming man. You probably got to be an adult a little bit quicker, but she’s still hanging on to. She’s still young enough to idolize him and not see all of his flaws. Just feel them.

Matt (01:35:57):

And

Laci (01:35:57):

She will feel them and she’ll feel them the rest of her life. And yeah, he left her, but you got to understand the things Jessica Chestein’s going through and the feeling she’s feeling, the way she knows he’s leaving without him saying hardly anything to her at all, barricades the door, barely exchanges words with him when he comes into her room. She’s like, “What do you want from me? I know you’re leaving. You’re going to give me this stupid fucking gift. You’re going to say some words. You’re going to fucking look into the stars. Whatever the hell did you do?” But all of it is just you want to go, so you are going to go. I know that. She’s so resigned to it. So the little girl still has this immense love for her dad that she’s not afraid to show where Jessica Chestein is the perfect.

Laci (01:36:38):

I grew up a hard ass and I’m still seeking his approval. That’s why I’m doing what I’m doing. But yeah, I’m not going to talk to his fucking ass. He’s out there saving the world and Jesse’s. Fucking Tom. He looks like a Jesse. He does.

Matt (01:36:50):

Tom’s

Laci (01:36:51):

Over here showing him dead. His name

Matt (01:36:53):

Is Jesse.

Laci (01:36:53):

Yeah, I know. I know. Tom over here is showing him his fucking baby and then talking about stuff. And it’s like, “You’re making me look like shit, Tom. But I don’t care. Fuck you, daddy.” Or she pulls Michael Kane on camera and she’s like, “What about this?”

Matt (01:37:08):

She just makes

Laci (01:37:09):

Out with Michael Kane in front of Dr. Brand. What

Matt (01:37:12):

Do you think about Louis? How

Laci (01:37:14):

About that? What were we talking about though? You were saying that you find him to be a loving father and I think your bar’s low. I do.

Matt (01:37:23):

But I don’t think this is an exceptional. It’s interesting to see a movie where this is not a terrible father. He’s a flawed man. And he does deeply love his kids and he can connect them on his level, but he’s very limited. And that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t love them wholeheartedly.

Laci (01:37:42):

But at the end of the day, it’s about who are you going to pick? Whose wellbeing are you picking? And yeah, he was able to convince himself that I’m the only one that can do this. But they were already going to do it. But he has this yearning, this deep down just discomfort, this annoyance. He’s just sitting there doing nothing. He wants to help, but he can’t help. His drive and his uncomfortable feelings are going to override his decision making. And it’s not the first time. And you can tell it’s not the first time. You don’t get a distant son who’s fine with you. Tom’s like a cat, like a house cat. He just needs water. You don’t become a kid that doesn’t need much without being a child that didn’t get much. And she’s still yearning for that. And so it’s important that it’s not two teenagers he’s leaving.

Laci (01:38:36):

He’s leaving a kid that you could still make a difference on. Your son, he already feels this way. Exactly.

Matt (01:38:41):

Yeah.

Laci (01:38:42):

So I’m saying, sure, he loves them. And he wants to be someone who loves them even more, but he wants what he wants more than both of them. And I don’t know if that equals a loving dad. I don’t know. I don’t know how you’d put. I mean, it’s a dad that loves his kids. Is it a loving

Matt (01:39:00):

Dad? I don’t disagree at all. I just think the movie’s more nuanced than to say like, and see,

Laci (01:39:08):

He’s a shitty dad. No, no. The movie wants you to see how much he loves his kids, but that in one moment you see him make up his mind and make a very hard decision, but make it very quickly. It wasn’t hard for him.

Matt (01:39:21):

Not even a choice. And I liked what you said about how she can even feel that he’s making the decision without him even telling her. I just always think about the scene in Mad Men where Betty and Don hook up after they’ve been divorced and they’re laying in bed together. And he’s like, “Why couldn’t it have always been like this or something?” And she’s like, “Yeah, you say that, but even right now, I can feel you lose interest in me.” You can just feel somebody slip their attention toward you slipping away.

Laci (01:39:46):

A distant person just needs a reason. And so Tom and Murph have been experiencing in their own ways all these little moments of reasons. Reasons their dad is distracted and are too busy to come to the table. I mean, why even suggest that you need to sit at the table if you’re good at doing that on a daily basis? He’s a distant person and he’s unhappy. And they love their dad and they want him to be happy. So it’s like they’re in a situation where it’s like, well, if he stays, he’s not going to be fun. I mean, she knows that. She knows this was just the thing that. She knows that so much to her core that he was never going to be able to really be around or sit still, that she only wanted to say hi after putting herself in cryo sleep for two years as a elderly woman, just to be like, “I knew it was you.

Laci (01:40:37):

You knew it was me. Hi, you said you’d come back. I know you were probably torturing yourself about saying you’re going to do something and then you didn’t do it. And so I wanted you to be able to have done that. I think you are going to move on and go to the next thing and you probably need to do it with good morale because if there’s anything she can do, it’s do stuff for a bigger picture.” So even if it’s just a pump up her dad for a moment to be like, “It’s okay, soldier. Don’t even meet my grandkids. Bye.” Yeah.

Matt (01:41:01):

And you aren’t the most important person in my life and haven’t been for a long time. And that’s not a bad thing. That’s a good

Laci (01:41:08):

Thing. And she knows that ties hurt him. Ties make him feel guilty. Why introduce you to all these kids when I’m literally about to send you to another planet? You’re never going to see these kids. Yeah.

Matt (01:41:18):

So baby, that’s why we. The name Tom shall never even be mentioned here in this. That’s what I’m

Laci (01:41:22):

Saying. Was he had time to make an errand? Go run over to another spinning fucking station? Who cares about Tom?

Matt (01:41:30):

So he’s got to take them to school. Usually the grandpa takes him to school, be like, no, parent teacher conference, not grandparent teacher conference. This movie, especially this section, is very evocative consciously of close encounters of the third kind. And so McConaughey here is like the Richard Dreyfus character who wasn’t magically infected by aliens. He’s just already distracted and building a tower out of mashed potatoes just because he’s just naturally distracted and not interested in his own life. I’d

Laci (01:42:00):

Honestly like to see at least one day in the life before we just go right straight to the. It’s interesting Nolan starts with the weird day. He just gets right in because to see his discontent a little bit more, I mean, it’s all in the performance. It’s not like I need to see it, but truly what is he doing all day?

Matt (01:42:17):

We talked about that in the last episode, that you never get the moment in a Nolan movie where you’re just with a character and just breathe with the character. That’s just not something that interests him. Wouldn’t have been interesting Bruce Wayne realizes how alone he is in his house, but it’s always like, “No, got to move. Got to move

Laci (01:42:32):

Forward.” Well, and I guess as long as he’s showing you the pathos of the character, what does it really matter? If you already get it, why show it? His movies are already very long. So it’s like, do we really need a whole day of him being dissatisfied and kicking the dirt and dropping something and having to pick up, bend over three times before he gets it? And he’s like, “God, can anything go right?” And then his seatbelt tightens before. He’s ready for it too and he’s

Matt (01:42:55):

Just.

Laci (01:42:57):

But

Matt (01:42:57):

He is a good farmer.

Laci (01:42:59):

Sure, he’d be good at anything he did. If

Matt (01:43:01):

He’s Christopher Nolan, being a farmer is what you said about Nolan making shitty blockbusters that he doesn’t care about. Or

Laci (01:43:08):

Being a father.

Matt (01:43:09):

Or being a father. I wasn’t meant to do this. I was meant to make Interstaler. Now the Dark Knight matches.

Laci (01:43:15):

I could do this. A lot of people could do this, but I want the thing where I’m the one.

Matt (01:43:22):

Yeah.

Laci (01:43:23):

He’s big on the one in his movies.

Matt (01:43:26):

They’re driving through, I guess, their own cornfield because suddenly an Indian Air Force drone is circling around in the sky and they’re like, “We got to chase that shit.” And they drive through the corn maze, the cornfield. I keep calling it a corn maze. To

Laci (01:43:37):

You, it’s all a maze. And

Matt (01:43:39):

He’s like, “Timothy Chalamei, you take the wheel.” And he’s like, “Oh, I’m okay.” And nearly drives them off a cliff. So there’s some cognitive dissonance here because there would never be cornfields planted near a cliff near the sea. This is all filmed in Alberta. And it’s not like the movie puts a fine point on it, but you do kind of pick up like, oh, someone’s not right about this. Why is there so much corn right here on this cliff? But they do a little hacking and take control of the drone. And he explains, “Yeah, old Indian Air Force drone, Delhi space control or Delhi Mission Command went down 10 years ago. Same as ours. We don’t have militaries or air forces or space forces or whatever no more.” Didn’t

Laci (01:44:15):

Have the money for it. Can you imagine a fucking US where they’re like, “We can’t fund that.” Right. They army.

Matt (01:44:22):

It’s the most unrealistic thing in the entire movie. Yeah, no military anymore. If there are two people left on earth, they’ll be sinking money into building F – 35s as long as they can. So a couple of things. Han Zimmer’s piece of music, Cornfield Chase plays here. And this later recurs when they’re on the ocean planet. And it’s kind of like this drone just sort of stuck in a cycle of repeating its command is sort of the same thing that happens with the thing that they find on the wave planet where it’s been just repeatedly sending out its signal. It’s the

Laci (01:44:59):

French lady from Lost. Oh,

Matt (01:45:01):

Yes. Yes. Russo.

Laci (01:45:05):

I’m so good at French.

Matt (01:45:07):

So we have this parent-teacher conference and David Oyelowo is the principal. And I guess this was right before he became famous. So it’s a little strange to see him in this tiny role.

Laci (01:45:18):

Well, even her. She’s even something now and I can’t think of her.

Matt (01:45:21):

Colette Wolf. She was in You’re The Worst. She’s in Stuff. But there’s also, it seems like maybe there’s deleted stuff because Oyelowo and Cooper definitely seem to have a relationship because Cooper keeps calling him sir and he keeps calling him Coop. And the guy looks outside and he’s like, “Oh, you got the Asian Air Force drone out.” Well, yeah, so

Laci (01:45:38):

He’s probably a commanding officer.

Matt (01:45:41):

A

Laci (01:45:41):

Ton of them are just going to be ex-military.

Matt (01:45:43):

Okay. So I thought that’s what that was implying too. Tom’s aptitude scores say he’s going to be a farmer. Congratulations. He’s going to go be a farmer. And yeah, I know you want him to go to college, but only one kid per year gets to go to college and it’s just not him. Murph, meanwhile, she’s getting in trouble because she’s spreading misinformation in class. She’s telling people about the NASA missions to the moon. “You don’t believe we went to the moon? “He’s like,” No, I think it was propaganda. “And then he gives his whole speech about the MRI. And now we don’t believe in building technology no more.

Laci (01:46:15):

Okay. But the teacher is also engaged in propaganda. I mean, it makes sense to slowly. If you’re going to get rid of NASA, you have to slowly make NASA seem like something that is a pipe dream or even silly or even a conspiracy or something that was never quite. Because if this planet’s dying, you’re going to get a lot of people who are constantly saying,” Let’s get off of this planet. “But if you make people believe we didn’t even get to the moon, then people don’t have to be constantly screaming at the government to do something. Well, in secret, they are doing something, but what if it never works out? Otherwise, it’s propaganda to tell the kids.

Matt (01:46:57):

No,

Laci (01:46:57):

No, no.

Matt (01:46:58):

You have to constantly push the bar away from like, don’t ever expect us to do anything good for you at all. Or just

Laci (01:47:04):

Don’t have this as your hope. Let’s focus here. Let’s do the best we can with what we have and what we can see. We don’t need a lot of people thinking about other planets. And let’s

Matt (01:47:14):

Permanently retire. We could put a man on the moon, but I can’t get a cup of coffee. Let’s do a event forever. But when I was in college, I still have a college history textbook that talks about a race of people called the Aryans who invaded India. And historical consensus now is the Arians never existed. Totally just not.

Laci (01:47:33):

Nice.

Matt (01:47:34):

So it’s like this is the kind of thing that would happen is textbooks get updated in a new sort of doctrine. But

Laci (01:47:41):

We think about them getting updated toward a more understood real history, a less whitewashed one. But then you go through this last Donald Trump fucking semester, that’s not the right word, term. Semester

Matt (01:47:53):

Of college.

Laci (01:47:54):

Term. And even beyond that or before that, and you’re like, oh no, I can see the new textbooks might just start really going backwards. Well,

Matt (01:48:03):

It is impossible to separate history and politics. History is always politically motivated. And if it aligns with what you believe, you’ll think that’s good, but it could just as easily go in the opposite direction. And

Laci (01:48:14):

Public schools are funded by the government. So whatever their initiatives are at the time when I’m rand, what’s the name of the textbook people? It’s Rand something. It doesn’t matter.

Matt (01:48:27):

You think Rand McNally? Yeah. They make maps.

Laci (01:48:29):

Exactly. And when it’s time for them to produce their new round of textbooks, it’s like, well, what legislative body’s got the most pull right now and what do we want to happen in five years? Let’s put that in the book.

Matt (01:48:40):

And there’s often the soft thing of you don’t notice how patriotic the history is until you – Until

Laci (01:48:46):

You look at the goddamn freedom bus or whatever the shit they spent $17 million on, this thing touring the country. Oh,

Matt (01:48:53):

You don’t like freedom? What’s wrong with you?

Laci (01:48:55):

Dude, it’s bad. They’ve got an AI of Harriet Tubman, but they don’t call her Harriet Tubman. She’s just wearing what you’d normally see a picture of her in and she’s hot as shit. And she’s

Matt (01:49:07):

Hanging out with Thomas and Martha Wayne underneath their

Laci (01:49:10):

Manner. She’s just there. And across her it says important and freed slaves or something like that. And it’s like slaves and freed people or something very. And you push the button and you learn about certain slaves who I guess matter to this fucking bus. But they don’t matter enough for her to look like she looked.

Matt (01:49:31):

I’m glad that I don’t know about some of the stuff you know about. Yeah. So afterward, well, they’re like, “How are you going to punish your daughter?” And he’s like, “I got an idea. There’s a baseball game. She loves baseball. I think I’ll take her to that.” Okay.

Laci (01:49:44):

He does it so much smoother, but yeah.

Matt (01:49:46):

But on the way home from school, he gets a call on the radio. He like, Cooper, your tractors are going haywater. They’re going local. They’re all returning and then they’re all just returning to base. They’re just returning to the. Because these are autonomous tractors, but they’re just returning to his house. I love

Laci (01:50:00):

That this guy was so confident that they would stop. And this isn’t just the singularity. This is when it’s happening.

Matt (01:50:07):

They’re all going to definitely

Laci (01:50:08):

Eat me. But they

Matt (01:50:09):

All politely stopped right outside.

Laci (01:50:12):

Peter, how are you doing now? We’re hungry. It’s very efficient movie making because it would be distracting because I knew that Murph goes along with him for a bunch of stuff. And I just remembered that. But then I’m like, “But why? Why was she available?” It’s like, oh, she’s suspended for a few. You’re right, you’re right. It’s smart. The boy’s out of the way because he might be a little less of. I don’t know. He seemed down to drive that getaway car, man. Or you know what I mean? But she’s his little button. She needs to stow away and sneak off and see NASA. You can’t do that with your brother hiding under the blanket with you too.

Matt (01:50:49):

There’s something interfering with the compasses on the tractors. Magnetism or some such. It’s a gravitational anomaly. And they go up to Murphy’s room because they hear a book fall. And like Tenet and like so many other Nolan movies, you’re experiencing things that you’re going to see how they were caused later in the movie. It’s like a Russian nesting doll that’s going to open up and then close again. Books are being pushed on the shelf. And Murph says she’s been charting all this, can’t figure out. Is there any logic to which books are being pushed off? I don’t know, but they’re trying to say something. Who? The ghost. No, such thing as Ghost Myers. So he’s fixed all of the. Okay. So he’s fixed all of the machines, but he doesn’t know what triggered them. I love that he just kicks one lightly on the tire and it just starts going again because he’s good.

Matt (01:51:37):

He knows what he’s doing. And John Lithgow’s like, “What the hell’s going on?” He’s like, “I don’t know, man. Crazy. Crazy about the fucking trailers. All right.” Then he starts talking about, “We’ve forgotten who we are, Donald. Used to be explorers, pioneers, not caretakers.”

Laci (01:51:53):

Where do you want to go? Pioneer. Where do you want to go explore? We found it all, bitch. It’s bad. Take care of what you have. Yeah,

Matt (01:52:02):

There is something. I mean – He’s like, “I

Laci (01:52:04):

Want to take some shit.” That’s what a pioneer does. That’s what explorer does. They go and take other people’s things, McConaughey.

Matt (01:52:11):

I don’t know. I definitely get the impulse of saying, “Forget going to the moon.That was stupid. That was a waste of time and money. It’s an inspiration, but inspiration doesn’t…” What did that translate to?

Laci (01:52:23):

Well, we can go beyond the moon now we’re talking, but we’re just going to the fucking moon. Well,

Matt (01:52:28):

No. Go beyond the moon. No, fucking take care of shit right here. Same way I feel about animal rights. I love animals. I want animals taken care of, but let’s fucking take care of people first. And once we get a handle on that and make sure everybody’s fed and taken care of and has medical care, then we can start worrying about some other shit. What if

Laci (01:52:45):

People really, really, really like their animals though? Should we

Matt (01:52:48):

Take care of

Laci (01:52:49):

Those animals?

Matt (01:52:51):

They can give their portion to the animals. So

Laci (01:52:53):

Maggie, your sister, does not get any healthcare because you know she chews her fucking dog. You’re making all the animals. Anna, all the animal lovers die and I can see your plot.

Matt (01:53:06):

How am I making them die? Because

Laci (01:53:07):

They would choose their animals. They’d give their healthcare to their animals and they would die. All right.

Matt (01:53:12):

Well, we have to make sure that the healthcare’s non-transferrable. Well,

Laci (01:53:15):

They just said. Okay, fine. And

Matt (01:53:17):

Lithgaus says, when I was a kid, it felt like they were always making incredible new adventures, but six billion people try to imagine that. And every last one of them trying to have it all. The world isn’t so bad. You’re the one who doesn’t belong. This is the first time where I saw the movie also a little bit as being about being a movie director where he’s the guy trying to make movies the way they used to. Hollywood telling him, no, we make movies this way now. You’re the one who doesn’t belong. We don’t need to film in IMAX cameras out and out of the shit. He’s telling

Laci (01:53:50):

Him no. Come on, Matt. Now

Matt (01:53:51):

They’re not. They weren’t

Laci (01:53:53):

Then either.

Matt (01:53:55):

Maybe he’s like Michael Jordan. He has to imagine a foe to motivate himself. The time that studio head told me I couldn’t film on Mount Kilimanjaro, it’s bullshit. So this baseball game, which is another thing I took for my short story, Thirsty, where I have a basketball game between the Celtics and the Bulls. Because I love the suggestion that somehow this team right here are the New York Yankees. They’re connected somehow. A line of succession of paperwork started with the Steinbrenner family in the ’90s and now it’s 200 years later or whatever. And the New York Yankees are like the Harlem Globetrotters and they just tour. But it’s still technically the same team. You know what I’m saying? No.

Laci (01:54:35):

Why

Matt (01:54:36):

Not? Okay.

Laci (01:54:37):

Because I though baseball had gone away completely. So why would this even be the Harlem Globetrotters? You’d have to continue on the practice of baseball to know how to do it. Yeah,

Matt (01:54:45):

That’s what I’m saying. They’re like, who owns the New York Yankees? Technically, this family owns the trademark and everything, so they’re using it and just hiring players. And they’re like, “Now you’re the Yankees.” Oh,

Laci (01:54:55):

Well, yeah, that makes total sense. But yeah, they’re going for nostalgia. Why not use the names that people were used to? For

Matt (01:55:02):

Me, it’s important that it actually is the Yankees. It’s not people pretending to be the Yankees.

Laci (01:55:08):

So it’s like what I was having trouble with, with plan B. I need it to be Earthlings who experienced Earth. I don’t want them to just look like it and be pretending. No, you’re right. That is what this is. It is a farce that way. Or even the people who are born on the Cooper’s fucking giant thing. You’re not really Earthlings either. You guys don’t get it. And you have these stupid fucking textbooks that say we didn’t even go to the moon. What do you call this?

Matt (01:55:36):

It’s a little exhibition game, but Lithgal’s like, “This isn’t the same. I want a hot dog. There’s no hot dogs. All we have to eat is popcorn. Popcorn at a baseball game. Now I’ve seen everything.” And Cooper’s talking to Tom and he’s like, turns, “Hey, I heard you’re going to be a farmer.” And he’s like, “Yeah, I love what you do. I love our farm. I think you’re a great farmer and I admire the work you do and look forward to following in your footsteps.” And he’s like, “Yeah, that’s great. Okay.”

Laci (01:56:00):

I’m going to talk to my favorite kid now. And

Matt (01:56:02):

Then a dust cloud comes over the hills and it rules. Sirens going off and the people are reacting like this is so routine. They’ve done this so many times. I know. That’s

Laci (01:56:10):

A big one. Although the driving in this dust cloud is a little bit reckless. He’s just like, “Yeah, you can’t see shit.” He’s

Matt (01:56:17):

Done it so many times. “All right gang, we know what to do.” They all put on their goggles and their masks, but it is a big one. And they get to their house and Cooper’s like, “Everybody remember you shut your windows?” And Murphy’s like, “Oh fuck.” And she runs up to her room and then she’s like, “I’m a gad.” And then McConaughey goes up and looks and it’s all these lines of dust in the air lining up perfectly. And she says, “It’s the ghost.” Well, it’s in

Laci (01:56:42):

The air, but it’s also making lines on the ground.

Matt (01:56:44):

Yeah.

Laci (01:56:45):

Okay.

Matt (01:56:46):

Just an incredible image. And he just stays and stares at it and apparently stays there all night. All night.

Matt (01:56:53):

Sitting crisscross applesauce, just staring at it. And Murphy comes in the next morning and he’s just like, “It’s not a ghost.” And he throws a coin. He says, “It’s gravity.” So this is still the part of the movie where I’m just confused about the mechanics. And I know this doesn’t matter, but I guess the idea is gravity can travel through a black hole. So future Cooper created some gravitational anomalies that caused dust to fall into these lines. That’s why he’s able to throw a coin and it gets sucked into that line because it pulls gravity right there. That’s what’s happening?

Laci (01:57:31):

Yes, because he needs a way through the bookshelf or through that fifth dimensional, whatever dimension thing he’s in to give him coordinates. And that’s how he did it.

Matt (01:57:41):

But the one I really don’t understand is the watch. How does he program the watch? Doesn’t matter. He doesn’t

Laci (01:57:46):

Program. No, no, no, no. All he’s doing is tapping Morris code over and over again, like the French woman. And they’re making the most sentimental piece and object in the room that she’s likely to pick up, hopefully pick up before she leaves and pay attention to, do something that can signal Morris code. So he’s just tapping Morris code with the minute line, the minute arm. So

Matt (01:58:11):

He’s able to create gravity in the watch. Man,

Laci (01:58:14):

Who fucking knows?That’s

Matt (01:58:16):

What I’m saying.

Laci (01:58:16):

I don’t think that matters. I just think he’s able to use certain things, his brain, even just his own logic in that space with what he’s capable of at that time as a human to give him the answer. So

Matt (01:58:34):

These lines, they’re not morse, they’re binary. Thick is one, thin as zero. They’re coordinates. And then he grabs a bunch of shit and he’s like, “All right, I’m off.” Just always wanted to just be like, “Oh, coordinates. Great. I’m off on a little adventure. Got my thermos, got everything.” And she’s like, “Can I come?” And he says, “Hell no.” But then in the truck, she’s under some blankets, but he doesn’t mind. Oh, they’re having fun on an adventure together.

Laci (01:58:53):

And it takes them to the NASA station that will take him away, but they don’t know what it is. It’s a night. It’s something underground. It’s a lot of the something underground. And he goes to cut the fence and the lights come on freeze, motherfucker. And he’s like,

Matt (01:59:10):

“Well, man, I’m just here with my daughter. We’ll be on our way. No problem at all. But this is either bad editing or just Nolan not thinking you need to shoot for clarity.” Is he then gets tased and you don’t understand that. No,

Laci (01:59:26):

I didn’t know that.

Matt (01:59:26):

Because he’s then instilling it’s the next scene and McConaughey’s like, “Oh, whoa, whoa,” in the interrogation room. So I just think you need to show him getting tased with a gun or something and to create actual danger. Instead, it’s just a little bit confusing. But he comes to in the interrogation room being grilled by Tarz, the robot, voiced and puppeted by Bill Irwin. Incredible design, incredible performance by Bill Irwin. Bill Irwin is an actor and also a clown and a trained puppeteer. Yo might know him as Mr. Noodles from Sesame Street. Is it not

Laci (02:00:00):

Mr. Menoodles? Mr. Menoodle.

Matt (02:00:04):

No, Noodles. You’re positive? Or Noodle. I’m positive. Yeah.

Matt (02:00:08):

And the way they did this was he stands behind these big giant blocks and has these hydraulic things that he can use to control it. And then he’s also wearing a black suit so they can digitally erase him. Yeah, he’s an ex-military robot and Cooper, the loudest thing he says in the movie is, “Where’s my daughter?” And then he’s like, “Calm down, sir.” And he’s like, “No, not a military robot.” And so he’s like, “Hey, if you don’t leave me alone, I’m going to turn you into an overqualified vacuum cleaner on my property.” And then Anne Hathaway comes in and she says, “No, you’re not because I’m here now.”

Laci (02:00:46):

And my hair is short, so I mean business. What

Matt (02:00:48):

Do you think about her in this movie?

Laci (02:00:49):

I love her in this movie. What

Matt (02:00:51):

Do you think about her in general? Do you like Anne Hathaway? Yeah.

Laci (02:00:55):

So after The Odyssey’s where I started to turn, and then this performance, and then something else happened.

Matt (02:01:02):

The Dark Night Rises.

Laci (02:01:04):

Yep.

Matt (02:01:04):

So the three Nolan movies.

Laci (02:01:06):

Yeah.

Matt (02:01:06):

Yeah.

Laci (02:01:08):

I think I’ve learned at this point that she picks good projects. So I think I needed a little bit of reassurance that if I’m going to go watch it, it’s probably good. And that sucks because I don’t know that there’s many women where I follow them to their projects, but she might be one. I think she does good stuff. And we’ll see about The End of Oak Street or whatever the hell that name –

Matt (02:01:28):

I’m excited about that movie. Yeah,

Laci (02:01:29):

I hope it’s good.

Matt (02:01:30):

Yeah.

Laci (02:01:30):

Then I’ll be right again.

Matt (02:01:33):

So who are you? And she says, “I’m Dr. Brand.” I do what Dr. Brandon Brand wants. He’s a professor. You’re much cuter. Who

Laci (02:01:40):

Says I’m not a professor?

Matt (02:01:42):

Yeah. I don’t know. There’s just some little banter and then she takes him over to a conference room. I mean, she’s being a little like –

Laci (02:01:49):

Coy? Yeah,

Matt (02:01:49):

Because he’s like, “Is my daughter fucking okay?” And she just won’t answer. And then eventually, “Your daughter’s fine.” He’s like, “Okay, well, we don’t know anything. Can we just leave?” And she’s like, “No, it’s not that simple.” And takes him into a conference room.

Laci (02:02:00):

And then there is the brand he knows and he’s still not clued. And he’s like, “All right, well, please don’t kill us people I know.”

Matt (02:02:09):

I would think that we were going to get killed. I think it’s like the end of back rooms. Yeah, they’re being nice to us, but ultimately this ends with us in an incinerator because we stumbled upon this military secret. But no, don’t you know who we are, Cooper? We’re NASA. NASA still exists. Just skeleton staff, just the people in this conference room.

Laci (02:02:26):

Did not look like Matt. The people building the fucking shit underground is no skeleton crew.

Matt (02:02:33):

Well, I saw NASA firsthand when I went to space camp in Huntsville, Alabama, and it was a lot bigger than this.

Laci (02:02:39):

Those people are not all that is fucking. That’s the one person who get to go to school every year? They go there.

Matt (02:02:45):

Yeah.

Laci (02:02:46):

I’m assuming.

Matt (02:02:48):

And William Devane is like the NASA administrator. So he was the president of the last movie, NASA administrator now. And you know what? Maybe he’s literally the same man.

Laci (02:02:56):

Gives a shit.

Matt (02:02:57):

Gives a shit. So how’d you find this is the best kept secret in the world? Nobody just stumbles upon it and he’s like, “Well, I found some fucking gravity stuff.” And they’re like, “Ooh, gravity. I knew it. I knew it.” Maybe he said the

Laci (02:03:09):

One word. He said the one word.

Matt (02:03:12):

Yeah. NASA exists and this rogue operation public opinion wouldn’t allow spending on space exploration, but let’s show you around, Coop.

Laci (02:03:19):

So since the black hole appeared –

Matt (02:03:22):

The wormhole.

Laci (02:03:23):

Sorry. Since the wormhole appeared, that’s when they realized it had to be placed there and someone is helping them. So when someone arrives in a place that they shouldn’t understand who have been given coordinates and when they answer the word gravity, that’s why they all have that smirk because whoever put that wormhole here also put you here. And I mean, I get that. I don’t know if they stress that to him exactly, but I mean, he’s fucking in anyway. But they all seem to know a bit more that you probably sent yourself here or someone picked you.

Matt (02:03:57):

Yeah. They’re talking about they, and it could be aliens, it could be God. It’s very 2001 A Space Odyssey in that way. At the end, this is either an alien or God, or maybe God is an alien. That’s

Laci (02:04:08):

What I was saying that makes the most sense. That makes the most sense that it is just you later or a database that stored, downloaded your brain into it. For anyone to be taking care of us on earth, a specific person specifically or anything like that, for any of us to be chosen, we’re choosing ourselves. That’s the only thing that makes sense. In all the cosmos, we are not so special that we’re being identified by anything that doesn’t already know us. It’s something that knows us and cares about nostalgia. They’re trying to make a baseball team.

Matt (02:04:41):

Yeah. I mean, yeah. Do you believe in aliens?

Laci (02:04:46):

Of course. Yeah. I mean, unless it’s just a whole bunch of us duplicated and every. But that’s still alien.

Matt (02:04:52):

Yeah.

Laci (02:04:52):

They’re not here.

Matt (02:04:53):

I mean, he’s kind of an alien at the end of the movie to the new people.

Laci (02:04:57):

He’s an alien on every planet he touches down on. He’s not a hero. He’s about to go take their fucking resources.

Matt (02:05:03):

Michael Cain says, “Yeah, all the crops are dying and corn is going to die too.” And McConna, he’s like, “Well, we’ll find a way, professor. We always have.” He’s like, “Let me tell you about the earth. The earth fucking sucks. It’s a bad planet for us. It’s mostly nitrogen and we don’t even prove that shit. Blight drives here. No, people. The last people to starve will be the first to suffocate.” Now this is also Nolan thinking about his kids and reckoning with the world they’re going to inherit, the world of climate disasters. And us thinking about having our culpability in that or just what will that look like for our children or maybe for their children? And how should we feel about that? Well,

Laci (02:05:46):

Especially because he’s a man of means. He’s a man of access. He knows a lot of people. He knows a lot of scientists just because of this movie even and for other reasons. And he’s got enough money to make a difference. It’s got to feel really weird to have so many resources and to just want to keep making movies.

Matt (02:06:03):

I agree. You

Laci (02:06:03):

Got to feel some social responsibility.

Matt (02:06:05):

But it’s making movies is one of the only things you can do where you can actually do something.

Laci (02:06:10):

Don’t

Matt (02:06:11):

Even

Laci (02:06:11):

Fucking say that art can affect change because you love to say how it doesn’t do anything.

Matt (02:06:16):

No, no, no. I’m not saying that. I’m saying if you want to be in charge of. His movie costs like $300 million. You want to

Laci (02:06:25):

Go somewhere and you want to

Matt (02:06:28):

Be somebody. You better make it tap in.

Laci (02:06:34):

No, you ruined it.

Matt (02:06:37):

If you were put in charge of a company with a $300 million budget, he wouldn’t get to do anything. But a movie is like a thing where one person could be like, “All right, we’re doing this and we’re doing this and we’re doing this.”

Laci (02:06:47):

Yeah. So don’t give any money to charity. I get it. No, I get it.

Matt (02:06:51):

All

Laci (02:06:52):

Right. I get it.

Matt (02:06:55):

We’re not meant to save the world. We’re meant to leave it. And here we have a spaceship, a ranger. The last components of our one versatile ship in orbit, the endurance. So the endurance is currently out there in orbit. And from there, they launched these rangers, all part of the Lazarus mission, each going to look for a new home. And he’s like, “But there’s not a…” Cooper’s like, “There’s not a habitable planet for a thousand years. This doesn’t even qualify as feudal. Where’d you send them?” And Michael Kane’s like, “I can’t tell you anymore until you agree to pilot this mission.” And he says, “But you didn’t even know I was still alive until an hour ago.” And he’s like, “Well, yeah, now I feel much better about the mission because you were trained for this.” When you re-watch the movie, you think like, why is he?

Matt (02:07:41):

Why does he want to send him? It does seem kind of pointless. You

Laci (02:07:46):

Mean it seems kind of reckless?

Laci (02:07:48):

I mean, this guy’s been out of the game for a long time. They just happen to know each other. But he’s part of the last generation of people who actually used their training in the air, at least with planes and stuff. He actually experienced zero G. He hasn’t just been in a simulator. He’s done it and been scared and worked through it. He’s got the steady hand where the room of scientists have done their best with training and simulation and getting used to all those things, but actually having fear in your heart and things you don’t expect to happen, it’s not a simulation. He does not have that.

Matt (02:08:23):

I get it. But he says, “You were going ahead with all of this without me anyway. So

Laci (02:08:28):

Why

Matt (02:08:29):

Does it make it that big of a difference that I now exist?”

Laci (02:08:32):

Because you were. I didn’t even put this together until you mentioned the gravity thing again, but they all just knew they were being helped. They couldn’t even feasibly leave until they had that wormhole. And then lo and behold, another piece, a huge piece falls into place. I mean, I don’t know how much else convincing you’d need for this random motherfucker to drive hours to a place that doesn’t exist and be the exact right person for the job.

Matt (02:09:05):

So they started explaining to him, here’s what’s going on. And we meet another one of the astronauts, David Giasi, and I love this performance, as Romali, explaining gravitational anomalies started appearing in the atmosphere 50 years ago. One of these is the thing that caused your plane to crash. The most significant anomaly is a disturbance of space time out near Saturn.

Laci (02:09:26):

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That’s so interesting. So McConaughey has been targeting himself for years, including ending his career or whatever in the military. He needed his body to stay safe until he could get him the coordinates.

Matt (02:09:42):

He needed to have kids.

Laci (02:09:45):

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. That’s probably it.

Matt (02:09:51):

If he didn’t have kids, he would’ve just been like Matt Damon or whoever going out into the universe with no attachments.

Laci (02:09:56):

Yes. Yes. Okay.

Matt (02:09:58):

Love. Love is the thing.

Laci (02:09:59):

Shut up man. All right.

Matt (02:10:00):

Wait,

Laci (02:10:01):

Wait, wait. Okay. No, what’s the Saturn thing?

Matt (02:10:04):

The biggest gravitational anomaly is out near Saturn, a disturbance of space time, a wormhole, and it leads to another galaxy. Wormholes aren’t naturally occurring. So somebody put it there and Hathaway. Hathaway is like the spiritual one. Whoever put it out there, they’re looking out for us. That wormhole came along right when we needed it.

Laci (02:10:20):

And then McConaughey came along right when they needed it. I don’t think it’s spiritual. I think it’s hopeful.

Matt (02:10:26):

But she is, in contrast to the other astronauts, she is the least sort of – She’s

Laci (02:10:31):

Optimistic.

Matt (02:10:34):

But she speaks in a sort of spiritual language and believing in love as this force in the universe. And that is spiritual. That’s not religious. She’s still grounded in science, but she thinks it’s valuable to look at these other forces like love. They sent out rangers 10 years ago, one each to a possible world. They’re sending some pictures back.

Laci (02:10:57):

Not pictures, just data, right? Oh,

Matt (02:11:00):

Sorry.

Laci (02:11:00):

That’s why it’s so hard to say, is this data real? Is it not? Because it keeps ending up either being faked or being an accidental loop. It’s very rudimentary.

Matt (02:11:11):

Right. So we need to get closer. We need to get up there and actually see. And Michael Cain’s like, he’s like, “These are the members of the Lazarus Mission.” And we see closeups of some of the pictures, but then we pull away when he says, “All led by the remarkable Dr. Mann.” This is once again, the Fallon trick of Nolan not giving you. Why did he pull away and not let us see the picture right there? Because the movie is hiding Matt Damon. He’s not in the credit block on the poster. He’s not in there. He wasn’t in the trailers. It wasn’t a secret. You could look at the cast list before the movie.

Laci (02:11:43):

I though he was Edmond. I thought he was the one that she’s in love with. A lot of hot scientists just going up in the sky.

Matt (02:11:50):

So each person’s landing pod had enough life support for two years, but they could stretch it out by going into cryo sleep so they could make observations over a decade. And if the world showed promise, they could send out a signal, bed down for the long nap and wait to be rescued. So they’re telling you right there what’s going to happen. And if you give somebody here, here, just press a button and we’ll come get you. But don’t press that button unless your world’s habitable. That’s what I’m saying. Everyone would end up pressing the button.

Laci (02:12:20):

Well, it’s probably three buttons. It’s probably atmospheres, right? Vegetations existing. Water exists. Because they do make indications that there’s difference between the data and that Edmonds is the most promising. So I think it must be reporting higher percentages across all the things needed for life. She even bothers going through them. So I think we’re supposed. Other than I wake up after six months, press the yes button, go to sleep, pick up after six months, press the yes button.

Matt (02:12:54):

I just meant a metaphorical button. If it’s literally –

Laci (02:12:57):

I mean, it is something transmitting information.

Matt (02:12:59):

Right. But if you do tell somebody like, “If you call for help, we’ll come get you.” Don’t call for help though, unless it’s worth coming to get you.

Laci (02:13:07):

No.

Matt (02:13:08):

With enough time, everybody would say, “Come and get me, please.”

Laci (02:13:11):

Right, but that’s not. Okay. It’s if this planet is someplace the entire world can live now, keep pressing this button. If it’s not, stay here and die. I know that’s functionally the same thing you’re saying, but it’s much more selfish. Lots of people want help. It’s not weird to ask for it. But to say you are going to completely jeopardize the ability for the earth’s people to continue existing if you make us waste our fuel coming to you for no reason. You took this mission so that if you ended up on a bad planet, you were willing to die and you weren’t willing.

Matt (02:13:51):

And I know this is getting tedious. My point is everyone would do that.

Laci (02:13:55):

Right. It’s just handy that the other ones,

Matt (02:13:59):

They died. They died before they got to that point. But you can’t trust. Just saying someone’s a good person and a selfless person, that doesn’t matter. You can’t rely on that.

Laci (02:14:08):

Right, right. But how many astronauts went out? Because it’s not just three.

Matt (02:14:13):

12.

Laci (02:14:14):

12.

Matt (02:14:14):

It’s three that show promise and they’re all in the same solar system.

Laci (02:14:19):

Okay. But are you telling me that the other people have been just over and over? I think you’re wrong. I think Dr. Mann is a specific kind of. Thought very differently of himself and ended up being wrong because those other 12 or those other nine have no indication of sending false promising data just because they think of it as a help come get me button.

Matt (02:14:40):

Right. But we find out Miller on the wave planet died immediately upon impact. Sure.

Laci (02:14:44):

That’s just one of three that they say are giving good information. Miller accidentally giving good information. I’m talking about the other nine that we don’t even consider or talk about because they’re too far away from each other or aren’t reporting data. Just saying, not everybody would hit the help button.

Matt (02:15:02):

So these are all in one star system. So this gives us a really good chance. We’ll just go through that wormhole. It’ll lead us to this star system. Visit three worlds. We got a plan A and a plan B. Plan A, we got a big Noah’s ark that we can fly humanity, office, planet. And Matt McConaughey’s like, “How can you do that?” And Kane’s like, “I’m working on it.”

Laci (02:15:21):

Right, because gravity’s the issue, right?

Matt (02:15:23):

Yeah. And we got this information from the gravitational anomalies that made us discover all these things that like Einstein never could or whatever. And I’m getting close. You go out there into space. This is what sounds like the biggest lie. You go out there into space. By the time you get back, I guarantee I’ll have to solve gravity’s equations. It’s like, oh, okay. And then plan B, population bomb, which Laci has a big problem with.

Laci (02:15:45):

Because it’s fucking pointless and you’re just taking over a perfectly happy planet that doesn’t need a bunch of random organisms on it. You’re just bringing measle blankets to the fucking Native Americans. Why are you doing this again? We don’t need to decolonize a planet that was perfectly fine before us. Why do we get that planet?

Matt (02:16:01):

Just a canister of space jazz that they’ll set off.

Laci (02:16:04):

I’m just saying there’s no report as to what. If it can create life and it can sustain it, it can create. Strike that. If it can sustain life, then it can create it. So we have to assume there’s already something there. And that’s fucking problematic to me. Right. We’re just the first ones to think of fucking. Guys, look. Matt, really, what are you going to come to with this thinking you’re doing right now? You’re going to figure it out? I

Matt (02:16:33):

Don’t know. I don’t have enough time.

Laci (02:16:35):

Okay. Well, you just keep thinking. I’m going to go to a planet. And when you get back.

Matt (02:16:40):

So they go back home and Murphy’s mad at him because she knows already, “You’re leaving. I know you’re leaving in a fucking spaceship. You asshole.” She’s barricaded herself in a room. And Lyft, I was talking to McConaughey downstairs and McConaugh’s like, “Getting up there in Spice is what I was born to do. Donald.”

Laci (02:16:57):

None of them need the pep talker. Yeah, yeah. Just make it very clear. God damn it.

Matt (02:17:01):

Yeah. And he says, “Tom will be all right, but you got to make things right with Murph before you leave. Without making promises you don’t know you can keep.” So he goes into Murph’s room and he says, “Murph, I have to fix this before I go.” And I love that she says, “Then I’ll keep it broken so you have to stay.” And he’s like, “Sorry, I’m going to leave if it’s broken anyway. Your mom, when the kids were born, told me we’re just here to be memories for our kids. Once you’re a parent, you’re the ghost of your children’s future.” I mean, he’s not telling her very helpful things. “Murph, I’m just a ghost of your future. Don’t worry. “And then the most horrifying thing of all is,” Hey, you know what’s cool is maybe when I’m out there, by the time I get back, you could be older than me.

Matt (02:17:41):

Wouldn’t that be me?

Laci (02:17:42):

“No, dad.

Matt (02:17:43):

She looks at him with utter horror when he says this. And so he’s like,” Murph, they chose me. They chose me for a reason. I’m super special. They told me to go up there and get them. “And she’s like,” No, that’s why you can’t go because I decoded their message. It says stay. “One word, stay. But he’s like,” No, I’m coming back.”

Laci (02:18:03):

That’s for

Matt (02:18:03):

You. I’m coming back. Murph

Laci (02:18:04):

Has to stay.

Matt (02:18:05):

And she says,” When? “And he gives her his watch so they can sync them up because time’s going to run more slowly for him when he gets near the black hole. So when I get back, we can compare. Oh, hey, I’m an hour behind you. That’s crazy.

Laci (02:18:16):

And in what way did you answer my question, dad, of when? Here’s a watch.

Matt (02:18:24):

I think that’s that Nolan sentimentality or sort of fake sentimentality of these totems, these objects that symbolize the pinwheel in inception. These things that these – Batman. A symbol, Alfred. Oh, I remember a moment on the beach with my children when what your children need is for you to be there every

Laci (02:18:43):

Single day. Exactly.

Laci (02:18:44):

Exactly. It’s the parents who are putting this force sentimentality into thing or it’s the people with guilt, the people with shame, the people who are sad saying, no, this mattered a lot because it mattered so much to me and I’m going to focus on it because thinking of the larger picture of the larger relationship I have with this person is too much. So let me put everything I did wrong on this one thing and I can make that right. Or let me put everything that has to do with proving I love you into this one thing and you’ll know I loved you. Yeah?

Matt (02:19:12):

Yeah. I mean, it’s the same mentality of parents who work all the time. We’re like, well, we’ll take a big vacation and that’s how I’ll make it up to you. The fact that we never talk or spend any time together. I

Laci (02:19:22):

Feel like you’re coming for me with that one.

Matt (02:19:23):

You. I think we’re good because we’re with our kids all the time. We just never want

Laci (02:19:28):

To

Matt (02:19:28):

Be. We never go on vacation. That doesn’t matter. We never go on vacations, but we’re always there. Always freaking with them. They’re always with us. Now he leaves and it’s such a good moment that he’s crying in the car and you’re hearing the sound of the countdown of the spaceship taking off and it just jumps ahead. Who knows how much longer this is?

Laci (02:19:49):

No, good. Yeah. Why does it matter?

Matt (02:19:51):

Yeah, it’s just he’s made the decision. Now he’s gone. He’s up in space and Tars is narrowed. Do you like Tarz? Yeah. He has a humor setting and he has a light that will indicate when he’s joking, which a certain director seems like he might wish everyone had on them for a certain reason. Poor

Laci (02:20:09):

Baby. But he also has an honesty meter or honesty setting.

Matt (02:20:14):

If human beings had all their attributes and you could just move the attributes up and down on a mixing board.

Laci (02:20:20):

Yeah. It’s like that brain implant thing from Black Mirror where you can raise your ecstasy. Yeah.You

Matt (02:20:28):

Remember what

Laci (02:20:29):

I’m talking

Matt (02:20:29):

About? Yeah. Raise your libido, raise your everything. Whatever you want. I’d raise my tea. I keep talking about my tea.

Laci (02:20:37):

God, you really need to go look into it because it seems to be bothering you.

Matt (02:20:40):

Hathaway’s getting a little sick and McConaughey’s. Hathaway is Amelia brand. So brand is getting a little sick. Cooper’s like, “Hey babe, just pretty nuts up here, right up here in the spaceship.” And she basically says like the dad in us. He’s like, “Okay, we don’t always have to be talking.”

Laci (02:20:57):

Right. And that’s not why she. She wasn’t getting sick. She was getting sad.

Matt (02:21:02):

Seems like she’s getting sick.

Laci (02:21:03):

No. He was sad. They were both realizing that’s it. I’ve left my dad. I’ve left my kids. She was saying he was trying to comfort her and she’s like, “Dude, there’s no way to make this better. Try not to be so uncomfortable with me just being sad if I need to be.”

Matt (02:21:19):

Okay. That’s better than what I said. So they go into the endurance. Now the endurance, this is another one of those things that I don’t totally understand in the movie. The endurance is like the big ship and they use it to fly out to Saturn and then through the wormhole. Where was it before? Did it go through the wormhole earlier and then come back?

Laci (02:21:44):

No, no, no. The rangers do that. The endurance.

Matt (02:21:49):

Because they fly the endurance through the wormhole,

Laci (02:21:52):

Which means that they – Short trips in and out of. What the endurance cannot do is go back and forth through atmospheres. So it is where the rangers dock to so that they’re in the bigger thing with all the supplies. And you can send a ranger up there to supply it, come right back down to earth. It’s how they stock it for all the stuff it needs. And then they do their major traveling with that big vessel, but they do not enter. It’s too big and it’s not made to land. So once it’s up there, it’s just up there. It’s for space travel. It’s not for coming back through atmospheres and landing in quick maneuvering. That’s what the rangers are for.

Matt (02:22:31):

Understood. So what I’m saying is it’s just up there in space near earth. Presumably the earlier missions didn’t launch from there.

Laci (02:22:43):

Launch from where?

Matt (02:22:44):

From the endurance right outside Earth’s atmosphere. The endurance is what they take to get to Saturn. So did the endurance come back from Saturn on its own?

Laci (02:22:54):

No, it wouldn’t have needed to. Just people would park it where it has to go, take a ranger, come back. Just because certain astronauts are the ones that go up there to do this part, there still were plenty more before them. The ones who needed to get through the wormhole and then go from the rangers, the 12, I mean, it makes total sense to me that there’d also be someone there that’s just a pilot that got them there, came back through.

Matt (02:23:26):

And then he went back down to earth?

Laci (02:23:28):

But you would think he’d be there to talk about it though. So yeah, I don’t know. Matt, I’m just a mother and a wife.

Matt (02:23:36):

But I think what you said makes sense. There’s an unknown astronaut drove it back for us.

Laci (02:23:40):

Yeah. I mean, he’d have to be dead, right? Because otherwise he’d be there to be like, “So guys, the wormworld’s crazy.”

Matt (02:23:47):

You tell him that he – Also, great opportunity to introduce another character actor. They get up, they dock with the thing, and it’s Peter Stormer. He’s like, “Gentleman, welcome to my spaceship.” Like Armageddon. So yeah, and it starts spinning and creating artificial gravity. We meet Case, the other robot, and it’s spinning and spinning. And Romney’s getting motion sick. And Brand says, “Okay, I’m going to go get some Dramamine.” And he goes, “Oh, hey, Brand. Bring a lot.” And she laughs. My favorite thing in movies, characters laughing at each other when they’re not that funny. Just people. Just people being people. Love it. And later McConaughey will, when he does the cool ass docking thing and he just goes, “Firm my next track.” Yeah, then they laugh

Laci (02:24:25):

He just.

Matt (02:24:26):

Yeah. It’s like, “Oh, my dad would say that.” Well,

Laci (02:24:27):

And they needed that relief that like, “Oh my God, we need to release some of this shit we were just holding onto.”

Matt (02:24:35):

Yeah. So they’re getting a video from Michael Kane and as always, the editing makes it a little unclear. Are they talking back and forth with him?

Laci (02:24:42):

Yeah. At that moment, but that wasn’t with Michael. Well, I mean, that’s just when they get to the endurance. They haven’t gone through a wormhole. But while they’re still in Earth’s atmosphere, I think it is back and forth. It’s not until they go through the wormhole that it’s just a one-way transmission.

Matt (02:25:01):

Because McConaughey says, “Take care of my kids, professor.” Yeah,

Laci (02:25:04):

They’re

Matt (02:25:04):

Talking to each other. But he doesn’t, he’s just like, “You’ll all be out there in space for two years.” Do not go gentle.

Laci (02:25:09):

He

Matt (02:25:10):

Wants to say his

Laci (02:25:11):

Fucking poem, Matt.

Matt (02:25:12):

Do not go gentle into that goodnight. This is a poem by. Did you ever read this poem in school? It’s like one of the big ones Dylan Thomas. All about like, “Hey, you’re going to die? Fuck that. You’re not taking me, death. I defy you. I’m living as long as I goddamn can,” which is my attitude. Living in hospice for as long as it takes.

Laci (02:25:34):

Sounds great.

Matt (02:25:36):

And they’re all getting ready for the long nap. And Brand is giving Cooper some handy exposition. Three planets. And here are the three astronauts. Dr. Mann, he’s the best of us. And he’s like, “Tell me about Edmonds.” She says, “Oh, well, Wolf’s a particle physicist.” And McConaughey gives her a look. Somehow just her saying that, he’s like, “May, thanks. The lady loves the Wolf Edmons.” And he’s right. And then Dr. Mann, wow, just the greatest human being who’s ever lived. And then she zips herself into her Ziploc and Cooper whispers to Tars and Tars is like, “You don’t have to whisper. They’re all asleep. So tell me about Edmonds and brand. Were they an item?” And he’s like, “No, I have a discretion setting. Cooper.” And he says, “But not a poker face slick.” Because he always calls him Slick. Slick.

Laci (02:26:25):

Okay.

Matt (02:26:26):

Cooper records a message for his family. And as he’s doing it, we cut back to Earth and Michael Cain brings Cooper’s truck to the farm and he tells John Lithgal, he’s like, “Murph is a bright, young spark. One that should be nourished in my care. Standard of work for NASA and live in a NASA pod with me. Okay.

Laci (02:26:43):

I’ll be here for Paul.”

Matt (02:26:44):

So we go into CryoSleep. One of my favorite moments of the movie is now two years later and they come out of CryoSleep. And Romali is like, he’s really like, he tells Cooper like, “Yeah, I’m struggling. This fucks with me because you got a little fucking tin of plastic right here separating us from the emptiness of space.” And McConaughey is like, “Well, here, try listening to this and put some headphones on him.” And it sounds of –

Laci (02:27:09):

Crickets and

Matt (02:27:10):

Earth noises. And rain. Yeah. And this was a Han Zimmer idea of putting the sound of crickets chirping on top of footage of passing by Saturn as this very surreal image. And so they go to the wormhole and they go through the wormhole, and this is fucking awesome. And a little thing happens, a little disturbance in the air happens. And Amelia Brand is like, “What’s that?” And she reaches out to touch it.

Laci (02:27:35):

She just instinctively knows that it’s not going to hurt her where Romley’s like, “No.”

Matt (02:27:42):

But she says, “It’s them. It’s them. The bendy thing that’s happening right here. That must be them.” She’s right. She’s right

Laci (02:27:48):

The whole time.

Matt (02:27:50):

What was that? First intergalactic handshake. And they go through the wormhole. It’s pretty quick. It’s not like 2001, A Space Odyssey, which drove. Listen to one of our very early episodes about that movie to hear Laci being driven mad.

Laci (02:28:02):

Fucking stupid. It was dumb for having made me wait so long to get through the hole. That’s all just the whole part.

Matt (02:28:13):

Go through – I

Laci (02:28:14):

Just remember footage and footage of wheat fields.

Matt (02:28:17):

Yeah. And a lot of the actor just being like.

Laci (02:28:22):

Neat.

Matt (02:28:25):

They make it through the wormhole. Now they’re in a brand new galaxy with three beautiful planets to go by and they’re debating. One would think maybe they would’ve debated this earlier. Where are we going first? There’s Dr. Mann’s planet. No,

Laci (02:28:39):

Because they have two more years of data. They’ve been asleep. So you got to discuss it once you get out there.

Matt (02:28:45):

Okay. That’s a good point. Yeah, because they go through the wormhole and now they’re picking up a lot of data that they didn’t get before.

Laci (02:28:51):

Also, they’d have no way of knowing how much fuel it takes to go through the wormhole. What’s that going to do to what they think they’re going to have when they get over there?

Matt (02:28:59):

And so we’ve got Dr. Miller’s planet. She’s a botanist. And her data is promising, right? It’s promising data. We got Dr. Mann. This data’s a little less promising. And then we got Dr. Edmonds.

Laci (02:29:14):

I don’t know that they totally tell us how good all of them are, just that they’re still the ones we’re going to look at. But there’s an issue with the botanist. What was her name? Dr.

Matt (02:29:27):

Miller.

Laci (02:29:28):

That it’s closer to the black hole than they thought it would be. So it’s going to take a lot of years off of their earth timeline in order to even to just check it out. But it’s the one that’s the closest to us. So if we don’t go down there and it turns out that it was the best one, then we skipped it. I mean, we can’t be upset about the seven years issue. Yeah,

Matt (02:29:58):

Because he’s the

Laci (02:29:58):

One – You still have to check it out. It still looks Closest

Matt (02:30:00):

One. This super massive black hole, Gargantua, and it’s near it. And this is them now explaining relativity to Cooper. And this is him basically learning about this is time is relative. The earth time is going to move at a different speed than it will move for us the closer we get to that black hole. Seven years down on this or an hour down on that planet is seven years back on earth. And he’s objecting and everybody’s treating him like, oh, come on Cooper, don’t be so selfish. That doesn’t matter anymore. We need to be thinking about the long term, the future of humanity. And he’s like, I am thinking of the future of humanity, the future of all the people who are alive on earth right now. So brand is like, okay, you’re right. Well, time is a resource just like air and water and everything.

Matt (02:30:46):

So we’ll go down there, we’ll be really, really fast. Okay? We’ll go spend an hour down there and it’ll be a year up here on the ship. And Romaly’s like, great. I could use a year. Two.

Laci (02:30:56):

Two years.

Matt (02:30:57):

We’ll leave it to one year. It’s

Laci (02:30:58):

Two. It’s two.

Matt (02:31:03):

I can study some stuff up here. That’s why I was

Laci (02:31:06):

Like, what a. Okay. All

Matt (02:31:07):

Right, nerd. And so the other astronaut we haven’t mentioned, Doyle, is played by Wes Bentley from American Beauty. And so he and Hathaway and McConaughey get into the ranger and go down to this planet, the wave planet, the coolest fucking image in Christopher Nolan’s whole filmography.

Laci (02:31:26):

It’s so terrifying.

Matt (02:31:28):

Why is it so terrifying?

Laci (02:31:30):

Because all the water is like, it seems to be shin deep and they’re confidently going through it as though the whole thing is like the edge of a beach, but it goes and goes and goes and there’s no land. And yet somehow it can create waves that don’t even really make sense in how large they are based on the amount of water that I’m actually stepping in. I guess a deep ocean makes sense to have deep waves. Knee deep water doesn’t look. How could it do that? No, because

Matt (02:32:01):

It’s a swell. It’s all getting sucked up into the wave.This is just a normal ocean, but it’s got a black hole next to it. So it’s sucking up all of the water on the planet to create these waves. That’s fucking incredible. I

Laci (02:32:13):

Feel like they could have figured it out pretty quickly. This not the place.

Matt (02:32:16):

Well, we didn’t mention. Miller’s still transmitting. That’s what makes her so promising. She’s transmitting over and over and over again. Yeah, I landed. Great. And they don’t realize all the time slippage means that when they land, she actually landed like a couple minutes before they landed. All her shit got destroyed and her beacon’s just been sending out the same signal over and over and over again. And then he looks up – That really

Laci (02:32:37):

Seems like quite the oversight.

Matt (02:32:40):

I agree. It’s a bungle. But they think they’re looking off in the distance. Oh, I wonder what’s beyond that mountain. That’s not a mountain. That’s a way.

Laci (02:32:50):

This singular, the single most stressful fucking moment of the entire movie for me is this fucking planet. Because of the time, I just feel it. I feel what’s kicking by. I’m like, “Oh, don’t wait through the water. Oh, don’t run over there. Oh, don’t do that. Don’t tie your shoe. What are you talking about?”

Matt (02:33:07):

She wants to find Miller’s ship and she does, but she’s wandered too far from the ship and then the wave’s coming and he’s like. And then tells Case, Case, go get her. And Case turns into this brick thing, this brick robot now turns into a giant spinny thing and it’s awesome. And he goes and gets her. Wes Bentley dies in the process and the wave sucks up the ship and throws him around and breaks the ship. And they’re going to at least an hour to fix the ship. And McConaughey starts doing the thing that DiCaprio did in inception. We’re not prepared for this. We don’t know what we’re doing. This is going to cost us everything. This is going to cost us a lot.

Laci (02:33:46):

And I’m not able to do the math. I mean, we don’t know how long they’re down there. At least it’s four hours up there for. I mean, at this point, I’m upset for Ronald. Romaly, yeah. But don’t we figure out it’s been – 23 years. 23 years. Okay. So it’s a little more than three hours they ended up being there total.

Matt (02:34:08):

It’s just an incredible moment when they get back on the ship and the door slowly opens and he’s there. He’s like, “I waited forever.”

Laci (02:34:16):

And then she’s like, “Why didn’t you sleep?” And he’s like, “I did have really long stretches of sleep, but I just realized I’m sleeping my life away.” Interesting that it’s still worth living. You’d have to keep reminding yourself for me, for them, it’s been three hours. It’s normal for them to need extra time. It’s normal. It’s normal. It’s just like, I just don’t know if I’m going to exist.

Matt (02:34:38):

And this performance, which was already, I mean, he’s playing him as very neurodivergent, just always calculating. But now he’s added this layer of just haunted. I was haunted by loneliness and – Yeah. I

Laci (02:34:50):

Mean, he’s like Dr. Mann. Dr. Mann’s acting like he’s the only one that’s ever experienced. I mean, I get that there’s no hope of anyone coming to get Dr. Mann if he doesn’t keep hitting the button. But Romley had no reason to think that anyone was ever going to come back up to the ship. And what is he supposed to do? Decide to go back to earth? He’s not going to do that. He would just have to sit there and die alone because he’s not too selfish enough that he will take that ship and go back to safety. So he made the decision, Dr. Mann said you can’t.

Matt (02:35:24):

That’s true. And in

Laci (02:35:26):

A longer period of time.

Matt (02:35:27):

He had the direct connection to the people who said they’re coming. They will be back. And that’s a little different from, I don’t know if I’m ever going to see anybody again. So he does not have to go on as much faith. So that planet was a bust. Too bad. Doyle’s dead. Now we got to decide between Dr. Mann and Dr. Edmonds.

Laci (02:35:49):

And how it comes out that the personal connection between Dr. Brandon, even though we really would’ve saved them some headache if they’d just fricking gone to Dr. Edmond’s planet.

Matt (02:36:01):

And she suggests like, yeah, I am in love with him and maybe that’s significant. Maybe I haven’t seen him or spoken to him in 10 years and I still feel this cosmic connection to him. Maybe that’s something we should follow. And I really love their chemistry right here. She’s saying, and maybe Cooper, that matters or maybe that means something. And he’s like, “Honestly, Amelia, I don’t think it does.” Something like that. It’s a really great scene between them.

Laci (02:36:29):

And you don’t know who to trust here, but he does seem harsh. It’s like he’s going anti-love because he thinks she’s going full love. He’s completely not trusting her. And then he ends up at a planet with one inhabitant who he really should never have trusted.

Matt (02:36:49):

And he’s mad at her. He thinks she fucked up the water planet thing because she went out there. He told her to come back. She kept going to look for Dr. Miller’s stuff. So she feels like he’s still punishing her. But they go to Dr. Mann’s planet, an ice planet, filmed in Iceland, filmed in the same place they filmed parts of Batman Begins.

Laci (02:37:10):

He had enough time, I guess, before his last cryogenic sleep to come up with just a full ass lie for. They’re going to land on this and they’re going to be like, “Dude, where’s the stuff?” He’s like, “This is the top layer. A top layer.” The surface. Fucking what? What do you mean? Are we mole people now? Are we going underground? If this is the surface, what the. Huh?

Matt (02:37:35):

It worked

Laci (02:37:35):

For

Matt (02:37:35):

Me. Yeah, that is a man who has thought of this story for years and years and years. I

Laci (02:37:41):

Still don’t totally get what his plan is. He’s definitely wanted to maroon all of them.

Matt (02:37:46):

I don’t know. I don’t know. And go

Laci (02:37:49):

Back to a planet that’s very, very, very much dying more than you remember. Like you’re an alien now. What are you even trying to go back to? And do you think

Matt (02:37:58):

You’re going to be

Laci (02:37:58):

Welcomed?

Matt (02:38:00):

I guess that’s why he thinks he has to kill them because that’s the only way he can get his old life back or-

Laci (02:38:05):

Or have a tale to tell.

Matt (02:38:07):

Yeah.

Laci (02:38:09):

Everything’s recording everything. Everything is a black box on this fucking thing.

Matt (02:38:13):

Right.

Laci (02:38:14):

Your fucking muffler can talk. What are you doing?

Matt (02:38:19):

Love the fucking image of them going into the planet’s atmosphere and bumping on a frozen cloud. Love it. Go down to the surface and go into Dr. Mann’s hut where he’s in a Ziploc bag and it’s just incredible. He seems gooey. It’s just so gross. I’d hate to be in this.

Laci (02:38:39):

Well, and just the crying and the hugging and it’s just all like. Out comes the human in McConaughey’s performance because he just hugs him.

Matt (02:38:51):

And the fact that it’s Matt Damon and that you. We know he’s in the movie now, but you didn’t know that. You probably didn’t know that when you saw it in the years.

Laci (02:38:59):

I just would’ve thought he was Edmond.

Matt (02:39:03):

Is that Matt Damon in that sack? What the fuck? Has he

Laci (02:39:06):

Been there since the Martian?

Matt (02:39:07):

The Martian hadn’t come out now yet, but it is. It’s crazy. He had to redeem himself

Laci (02:39:11):

In space.

Matt (02:39:12):

And the Martian has both him and Jessica Chastain in.

Laci (02:39:16):

Wait, and Jessica Chastain’s also in the fucking.

Matt (02:39:19):

That’s Amy Adams. Arrival. Yeah. Dammit.

Laci (02:39:23):

I always do

Matt (02:39:24):

That. I merge him too.

Laci (02:39:26):

And side by side, they do not look the same. I am sorry. I’m apologizing to them. Not saying I’m sorry. I’m not saying.

Matt (02:39:33):

So he quickly though bumps himself into hero mode. Yeah, this planet, our new world, we hope. It’s cold and barren, but undeniably beautiful. And go down to the surface, gravity’s a very comfortable 80% of earth and there’s water and all kinds of promising shit. Trust me, we’ll go down on an expedition tomorrow.

Laci (02:39:55):

McConaughey’s fatherly clock is ticking. Nah, we won’t be doing that tomorrow. I need to get back out of here.

Matt (02:40:01):

Yeah, man. If I’m leaning, I could be cleaning. I don’t

Laci (02:40:06):

See any of them redheads.

Matt (02:40:08):

Romaly’s like, “Hey, your robot’s broken. Can I try to salvage him?” And Damon’s like – I don’t

Laci (02:40:13):

Know if you. I really just kind of like the way that he is. He’s

Matt (02:40:16):

Being

Laci (02:40:16):

Weird.

Matt (02:40:17):

Don’t believe if he tells you anything. It’s crazy. He’s one

Laci (02:40:20):

Of those liar. I got that. Up.

Matt (02:40:24):

And fuck, we didn’t mention the key scene of the movie. When they get back and the time has passed, Emma Conaghe then decides, “Yeah, I’ll turn my phone back on and get all my messages over 40 fucking years.”

Matt (02:40:38):

And Timothy Chalamet is the only one talking to him. And is less attractive now. Murph refuses. And then grows into Casey Affleck. A million people online have made the joke of how often does a teenager’s voice raise as he gets older? Oh dad, this is me, Timothy Shell. Oh, hey, Dad. And he’s my little baby boy, Jesse. Yeah. I think I met the one dead. Casey Affleck, somebody that he worked again with in Oppenheimer. So good in Oppenheimer. Murph refuses to talk, but he’s like, “Just fucking wash over you now. Now an entire life. John Lithgow’s dead. I had a baby. I got married. I had another baby. One of my babies died. Murph still doesn’t want to talk to you. Waves at the grand baby.” And then Murph comes on and she’s Jessica Chastain now. And she says, “Today is my birthday and I’m now the same age you were when you left.” Which is –

Laci (02:41:32):

And I’m doing this specifically because you said you might return when you’re my age.

Matt (02:41:38):

Which I think she’s like 20 years younger than me. But yeah. So dad, now it’d be a great time to come home, you bastard. And then the camera lingers with fucking her and suddenly you’re back on earth. It’s crazy. It’s so fucking, ooh, it’s just chef’s kiss. And she turns around and there’s Michael Cain and he’s now so much older. I

Laci (02:41:59):

Never seen you in a room before. What you doing?

Matt (02:42:02):

She works for him now. She’s helping him solve his made up equation. Let’s get to work, professor, on the numbers. And she’s doing all this work and he goes in at night and just erases stuff or changes the numbers to other kids. Just a couple of

Laci (02:42:14):

Them. I don’t remember there being an apple.

Matt (02:42:19):

Why is this one a spider? Now we’re spending some more time on earth and things are not good here, folks. Things are turning bad. Casey Affleck’s son has a really bad cough and we meet Topher Grace. What’s Topher Grace doing in this movie? He’s a doctor. And I actually love his performance because pissed off doctor, my patients won’t listen to me, is a great character.

Laci (02:42:43):

It is. I’m here to save you. I’m a God. You will have my stethoscope upon you. But he’s

Matt (02:42:50):

Just pre-mad at you because he already knows you’re not going to listen to him.

Laci (02:42:54):

Well, but also it’s so interesting because Tom is the exact kind of character that would become abusive or neglectful or just. He is abusive to his family. I mean, the way that they are smuggling out the wife and the child while he’s distracted is very much like people trying to get to a battered women’s shelter or whatever.

Matt (02:43:14):

So what do you think is going on with them though? What

Laci (02:43:18):

Do

Matt (02:43:18):

You mean?

Laci (02:43:19):

What part?

Matt (02:43:20):

I agree it’s abusive. I don’t think it’s physical or anything. I think it’s like, I refuse to be told I need to leave this farm.

Laci (02:43:28):

I think they understand that ever since Jesse’s death that Tom is not right. He’s got abandonment issues by his dad and then his fucking grandfather dies and he’s just getting worse and worse. And his whole life’s work is that he’s a farmer and shit’s just dying. There’s just corn now. He is a failure by every fucking measure and he’s alone. And I think he’s probably gotten. He’s just really digging into this is our house. We’re going to die with our house. And the mom’s instincts are kicking in. I’ve already had one kid die. Why? This is stupid. Just because you don’t want to follow the footsteps of your dad and you resent him or you think your sister’s uppity and she’s followed the footsteps of your dad, so you’re digging in there too. And the fact that it’s NASA who ruined your life, wants to come and take your kid and wife away.

Laci (02:44:19):

I fucking get it. I get it. But he’s thinking of himself and not of his family.

Matt (02:44:25):

Yeah, absolutely.

Laci (02:44:25):

It’s like, we don’t love you anymore. It’s just like, let us go get medical treatment and then you’ll come to your senses.

Matt (02:44:33):

Michael Cain goes to the emergency room. He is dying. And he’s like, Jessica Chastain, come here. I got to tell you some stuff. She’s like, it’s been a pleasure working with you guys. No, that’s not

Laci (02:44:42):

What I want to talk about.

Matt (02:44:43):

And don’t worry, I’ll finish your life’s work. And he’s like, I’m so sorry. She’s like, there’s nothing to apologize for. But I just think the way she plays it is the more he says, the more she’s like, wait, what? Wait, wait, what

Laci (02:44:59):

Are you

Matt (02:44:59):

Fucking

Laci (02:44:59):

Sorry

Matt (02:45:00):

For? What are you about to tell me? I lied to them all moth. The gravity, I can’t solve it. It’s impossible. And I knew that 50 years ago. There was no reason for your father to go. She’s like, well, did he know that? Can you please answer me? He’s like, do not go gentle. No. He

Laci (02:45:20):

Went on his fucking auto message. Stop it.

Matt (02:45:23):

And so he dies.

Laci (02:45:24):

Without answering that very important fucking question. And then for a reason for her own too, she had to see her dad again and just find that out. Did you know? None of them knew.

Matt (02:45:41):

Right.

Laci (02:45:41):

Eli to all of them.

Matt (02:45:43):

No, Matt Damon knew. Because she then records a message and sends it to Anne Hathaway. Your father died. I’m sorry. There was no pain. Brand, did you know? Did you know you bitch that there was no reason for my father to go up there? And McConaughey watches the message with her and he’s like, “I don’t know what she’s talking about.” And Brand says to him like, “Cooper, I have no idea. I do not know what she’s talking about. Trust me. Oh, she’s way more horrified than this than by her dad dying.” And Damon is then like, “I know what he’s talking about. It’s impossible. The thing he was working on was impossible. It was always impossible. It was a lie. He was a sin eater. I need to tell this lie to people. Otherwise, we won’t be able to encourage people to go up into space unless they felt like they could actually save the people on earth.”

Laci (02:46:31):

Same way that they lie in the textbooks and with the teacher. We need to lie because otherwise people will not be focused on the right thing, which is to save this planet. We need farmers.

Matt (02:46:41):

Yeah. And it was actually, he calls it your father made a sacrifice. He was willing to do a monstrous thing in the name of the greater good.

Laci (02:46:52):

But the greater good being that earthlings survive, not the people of earth. For such smart people, I do not get how that seems like anything that matters at all. Why does that matter? Why should the human race keep going? What the fuck does it matter? It just means you’re going to take over a planet that’s not yours and kill out a different population. That’s not fucking hero shit. That’s war.

Matt (02:47:19):

It’s not war, if there’s no life on it.

Laci (02:47:23):

It sustains life, Matt. They don’t care. They’re not looking for planets that don’t have life on it. They’re looking for planets that will be good for the life they need. No, that

Matt (02:47:33):

Have the conditions to create life, but they don’t find any life.

Laci (02:47:37):

But they don’t care either. You’re telling me they’d go there and they’d see a people and they would be like, “Oh, sorry. This one’s already taking oath.

Matt (02:47:43):

I’m sorry.” I mean, this is the kind of movie where the possibility that they’re going to find actually sentient people is not ever raised.

Laci (02:47:51):

So what? That’s the point. Colonialism was not about let me go to these places and see if there’s people there. And if it is, I’ll turn around. It’s I’m going to go to these different places and find what resources are there because we are the ones that deserve it and we’re going to take it and pretend that we’re going to be really good shepherds of it. Really good to the fucking people that were there before. It’s a lie. It’s America. Isn’t it weird that there’s not any people from Japan or any other fucking place in the entire globe that are also working toward this? That’s

Matt (02:48:20):

Pretty weird.

Laci (02:48:20):

It’s just America and we’re just fucking –

Matt (02:48:23):

And they put up the American flag.

Laci (02:48:24):

Yes.

Matt (02:48:25):

At their research station. I think

Laci (02:48:27):

There’s a reason why it’s a secret. And I think it’s because we’re just colonizing. You think that that tube is full of other kinds of races?

Matt (02:48:33):

She says genetic diversity, but no,

Laci (02:48:37):

With

Matt (02:48:37):

American textbooks. My only objection to that is I don’t think that’s what Nolan is getting at.

Laci (02:48:44):

I think plan B was always supposed to look bad. I think he’s saying this is no plan at all. A population without a memory of who came before it is useless. We are a lineage.

Matt (02:48:55):

So I just wanted to ask a clarifying question. So are you saying if you could get the people of earth off of earth and then onto another planet, that’s okay with you even if –

Laci (02:49:06):

I don’t know. I mean, obviously it’s a gray area, but I get the motivation. You are saving what is in front of you. You’re saving what’s real. Otherwise, you’re just talking to me about figurative lives that haven’t occurred yet and haven’t felt pain. You’re talking to me about you need to save this fetus inside of this woman because it could have a life. That’s how little. I think that’s fucking stupid. No, the woman already has a life, a lineage. People who care about her, who interact with her, she already knows what it is to exist. So no, I don’t care about the baby inside her who does not know any of these things. And that’s how I feel about all the little things in that fucking tube. They can’t miss or miss out on what they don’t know, but the people of earth can. And I’m not saying that that is moral.

Laci (02:50:03):

I’m saying it’s different.

Matt (02:50:05):

I agree it’s different, but it also feels like it’s just like we got to do something.

Laci (02:50:10):

No, you don’t. You just die. If you can’t get out, then die with your fucking people. There shouldn’t be a special class of people in a tube that get to move on. Why? Why are we spending all these resources on that?

Matt (02:50:26):

Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. Something I’d never thought about. I’ve seen this movie so many times. Never though about that seems kind of pointless.

Laci (02:50:36):

I mean, if he knew 50 years ago, really, what is he doing? He’s going to educate these people in the ways of earth when they need to learn about the ways of fucking gargantuan or whatever the fuck the planet is. What do they care? Those are not earthlings. They’re humanoids. That’s it. And what dies because you did this? And who died on earth because you did this? That’s a lot of resources. That’s a lot of money. You’re telling me there’s not a ton of people who could just be working on how to grow crops again?

Matt (02:51:09):

Yeah, but maybe life on earth started because some other species launched a tube of jizz onto our planet.

Laci (02:51:14):

Sure.

Matt (02:51:15):

And I don’t

Laci (02:51:16):

Care about what was before it.

Matt (02:51:19):

But this thing about being willing to be the bad guy doing Dark Knight again, being willing to be Oppenheimer or Odysseus, do the bad thing in the name of the greater good. It’s another preoccupation of his.

Laci (02:51:34):

Right. But the greater good always ends up being not good at all. In fact, it’s bad. So that’s what I’m saying this is too. He did all of that. He said all of that in motion. He is the brain trust behind the entire thing. He spent all of that money and raised his daughter in this fucking religion. And now he knows it’s wrong. But he’s like, “Well, I’m just going to do it.”

Matt (02:51:58):

I keep coming back to you got to do something. You got to –

Laci (02:52:01):

No, he’s Coop. He’s Cooper. He’s got to do something. We could have just done nothing, Dr. Bran.

Matt (02:52:08):

Well, I think it’s like –

Laci (02:52:09):

You had to feel like the one.

Matt (02:52:11):

If we know a nuke’s heading to America right now and we’ll hit in 30 seconds, we’re going to go get in a closet or something. Sure. And that’s just getting in a closet over 50 years.

Laci (02:52:20):

That’s just us walking over. Yeah, but their efforts are not making humans feel any better. They’re a secret.

Matt (02:52:26):

No, they’re making themselves feel

Laci (02:52:28):

Better. Right. It’s just a neurosis. So many fucking entitled, privileged ass fucking people who get to have the only hope on earth.

Matt (02:52:35):

Yeah.

Laci (02:52:36):

When it’s a lie and a conspiracy.

Matt (02:52:39):

Well, what about this? If the world really was going to end in 20 years, should the world know?

Laci (02:52:49):

No.

Matt (02:52:50):

You don’t think so?

Laci (02:52:50):

Yeah, but there also shouldn’t be a secret population of people

Matt (02:52:53):

Who are – No, no. Take that away. Take that away.

Laci (02:52:56):

Should they know? No. No, they shouldn’t know. We should all keep acting as though we’re going to keep existing because that helps with morality and morals and ethics.

Matt (02:53:05):

I don’t know about that.

Laci (02:53:06):

It becomes the purge, Matt.

Matt (02:53:08):

I mean, it does become the purge.

Laci (02:53:11):

There’s no motivation anymore for people to go to their jobs. A giant depression goes over everyone. No one knows if they should have babies or not. They should keep having babies because we all think we should.

Matt (02:53:22):

Well, then this is why I wanted you to see Disclosure Day to see what you ultimately though of it. But what’s return to the movie? Damon gives a whole speech about you can’t persuade people to go make this kind of leap if they don’t feel there’s a chance that they can actually save humans who are alive right now. And it’s monstrous. Okay. And he’s like, “All right, I’m done with this mission. I’m going back to my home with my kids. We’ll all die together. We’ll be together. That’s what matters.” And Damon’s like, “Great. Just need a little help down there on the surface. Will you go with me? Okay. Yeah.” They go down to the surface and Damon’s giving this big monologue about how the triumph of the human spirit, it’s amazing, the survival instinct. And we –

Laci (02:54:02):

Such a creepy talk. There’s this whole thing about how it’s your kids. Your kids are the ones who can make you rally and have these. I don’t know. It’s a whole fucking. He’s though of this and it’s creepy.

Matt (02:54:17):

But it is also sciencing these ethereal feelings like love and attachment to people. There’s a biological reason that you love your kids because actually your love for your kids will save you because you’ll be so worried that you’re going to die. It’ll bring out your survival instinct, which is actually exactly what happens to Cooper when Damon now betrays him.

Laci (02:54:39):

I know, but it’s so creepy the way he’s like, “It’s happening now, isn’t it? It’s happening. What’s it like? What’s going on?”

Matt (02:54:44):

Because he’s maintaining this like, “I’m not a bad person. I’m doing what I have to do. And I’ll be with you here, Cooper. I’ll listen to you die. Don’t worry. Listen to the sound of my voice. Do you see your children?” And then he’s like, “Well, I thought I could watch you do this, but no, can’t. This is too hard.”

Laci (02:55:00):

Yeah. You often think you can do something hard and then can’t,

Matt (02:55:02):

Fucking

Laci (02:55:02):

Pussy

Matt (02:55:03):

Ass. It’s like your definitive trait. Dr. Mann. Man. Interesting, not Dr. Woman. But then Cooper manages to grab his little transponsor and call for help and Amelia runs down and rescues him. And Dr. Mann – Quiet the

Laci (02:55:19):

Pilot for having been named Amelia.

Matt (02:55:23):

Romaly has resurrected the robot, but then itself set off a self-destruct thing or whatever. He

Laci (02:55:28):

Dies.

Matt (02:55:29):

So he’s dead. Brand picks up Cooper. Man has gotten in a Ranger and he’s heading back up to the endurance and he’s going to –

Laci (02:55:36):

You know what? That really kind of puts a point on him thinking or him saying he didn’t want to sleep his life away. His life really was spent up there, endurance by himself. Yeah, that’s

Matt (02:55:44):

True. Because as soon as he

Laci (02:55:45):

Lands, he dies.

Matt (02:55:45):

That’s that. But if he had stayed, he would’ve just let Dr. Mann onto the ship. Or no, I mean, that doesn’t matter. But they’re like, “Dr. Mann, please do not dock with the endurance.” And he’s like, “No, listen, I’ve taken control of the mission. Don’t listen to anything McConaughey’s saying. He’s a dirty liar. I’m not a bad guy. I’m now in command of the mission. I’ll see you up on the endurance.” And they’re like, “Dr. Mann, you don’t know how to dock with the endurance. There’s some shit that’s changed since you last did it. Please don’t do it.” And he’s giving this, he’s now starting to monologue about people. Well, he stopped listening

Laci (02:56:22):

To them a long time ago. He’s just talking to the ship. He can’t hear them at all. They’re talking to him he cannot hear.

Matt (02:56:27):

No, she finds a way to talk to him.

Laci (02:56:30):

No, that is not until he actually gets to the endurance where she can talk through the endurance. He cannot hear her when he’s only in the ranger.

Matt (02:56:38):

Right. And he doesn’t hear them saying, “You’re not going to be able to do it. Your ship’s going to blow up.”

Laci (02:56:42):

They’re just talking. He’s not hearing shit. Right.

Matt (02:56:45):

Ever. Okay. But then once he’s able to start, he starts talking to them and

Matt (02:56:50):

Starts monologuing again. Listen guys. And he says, “Amelia, I don’t know what he has told you. I’m taking control of the mission.” And he’s about to launch into another hero speech. And what he says is there is a moment when. And he just blows up. And it’s that Nolan thing of people. He loves that, of giving a big important speech and it just doesn’t matter at all. And you just blow the fuck up. But now the fucking endurance is spinning out of control and there’s no way to dock. And Cooper’s like, “I’m going to dock anyway, motherfucker.” I’m

Laci (02:57:18):

Going to spin just as crazy, which is so wild. He’s got to go counterclockwise the same speed as that thing’s going clockwise or something. Or they’re going the same direction. And he’s got to get it to the exact spinning force long enough without passing out to dock perfectly when Dr. Mann couldn’t even do it under the best condition.

Matt (02:57:39):

Yeah. But he does it. And he’s like, “For my next trick.” Now it’s just these two. And he’s like, “You know what? We have enough fuel to get back to Edmond’s planet. We’re very near the black hole in danger of getting sucked in. But if we jettison a little bit of stuff, we’ll have enough fuel, you and me, and Tars, and we’ll all be on Edmond’s planet. It’ll be great.” And she’s like, “Okay, good.” And then –

Laci (02:58:03):

And it’s very arm again. It’s very sad. She doesn’t even want Tarz to go. And he’s like, “It was always the plan. Goodbye.” And then he announces very quickly, “Also me.”

Matt (02:58:15):

Yep. No. Because if you stayed on, there would be too much weight and they’d get sucked into the black hole. And he does the one thing I dislike in the movie is the Nolan thing of you have to keep repeating lines of, “We agreed 90% honesty with each other, Amelia.” So he has to say, “Remember 90%.” I don’t

Laci (02:58:31):

Know. I think it’s pretty cute. And

Matt (02:58:33):

She’s devastated. I though we had this thing and maybe we’re finally going to kiss or something. And now

Laci (02:58:38):

I’m just alone too, because you know that motherfucker’s dead probably.

Matt (02:58:42):

And you got the space jiz, so pretty soon you’ll be a mom to 50 kids.

Laci (02:58:48):

Which is what they do in all sci-fi movies when there’s a woman, they give her a fucking monkey. Here, take that, scientist.

Matt (02:58:56):

And so now McConaughey’s going to go through the black hole. And now in a movie, the rest of the movie is, this guy’s going through a black hole. We’re going to see what’s through a black hole. Holy

Laci (02:59:04):

Shit. Holy

Matt (02:59:05):

Bugging shit. Yes. And it’s –

Laci (02:59:06):

I don’t even know how you begin to try to think of what it is.

Matt (02:59:09):

They used equations. They typed in equations into a computer, and this is what happened. It’ll be a sphere. Okay? Okay. And you’ll go in and lots of crazy shit will happen. And eventually he ejects from his ship. And this also happens in contact of all I can do now is observe and just say out loud what I’m seeing. Yes. Okay. Now seeing fucking –

Laci (02:59:31):

Right. You’re a recording device for the people who are going to come after you.

Matt (02:59:35):

Seeing a molecule or something. And now I’m in the nonfiction section. Now, what do you think of this? I love it. This is where people check out of the movie.

Laci (02:59:47):

I love it. I know on the first watch, I was probably like, “What?” But then when you think about it like, no, this is just of us a being, maybe even yourself with much Much more recent information, trying to tap into some kind of archaic information for the person that you are right now. So it’s like I think about, okay, how would I tell a caveman or even a pioneer how to fucking log onto the internet? Okay, what would I do? I’d have to find some kind of frame of reference, some kind of thing that they could relate to, and I’d have to try to remember it even though I didn’t experience it myself. How do I recreate it? I don’t know. I have different dimensions than. It’s like forcing. What if cavemen could only see in 2D? Luckily, I know what that looks like.

Laci (03:00:38):

But I mean, it’s just like, okay, well, how do I simplify this? But.

Matt (03:00:43):

These beings exist in five dimensions and they need to figure out a way to communicate with us in three dimensions. And while they experience all of time simultaneously, that’s a limitation for them because they don’t know which moments to pick as the significant ones.

Laci (03:00:57):

They’re trying to give you every single moment that’s accessible enough while you’re in zero gravity. You’re just latching onto things and monkey barring around here. Here’s every possible moment you go look.

Matt (03:01:11):

They built him this Tesseract library where he can float around and communicate to his daughter through the bookshelf across time, but he needs to figure out how to send the right message. And the beings that are not confined. What is happening is it’s a closed loop because he gave himself the coordinates, first tapped out binary to give himself the coordinates to get to NASA because he realizes, “Oh, I gave myself those, which means I have to now do it.”

Matt (03:01:49):

In time travel movies, I believe this is called a ginny, is a self. It’s like an object where there’s no clear origin for where it started. Because if he gave himself the coordinates, where did he get the knowledge to then give to himself? And the solution is if you’re a being who experiences all of time simultaneously, then effects and causes don’t have to precede or follow each other. They just exist at the same time. So that doesn’t matter. And then needs to get all this. We can solve Michael Kane’s equation if we have the data from the black hole. And luckily I’m in a black hole right now, so I can record it and Tarz is with me and he can translate it into morse code and I can tap it into this wristwatch.

Laci (03:02:32):

The only part I’m really confused on is what data though? What data?

Matt (03:02:38):

How black is the hole?

Laci (03:02:39):

I know. Did you upload something? Did you get a broken

Matt (03:02:44):

Amazon fire stick? Some sciencey goo. And this is all cut with Chastain and Topher Grace going to Casey Affleck’s home and him and being like, “You have to get out of this house immediately. Your child is dying from that cough. Okay? Get out right now.” And Casey Affleck’s like, “Fuck you, man.”

Laci (03:03:02):

So they go set his cornfield on fire and he does not go home because that’s his livelihood. It’s the only reason he is sticking to this house is this crop. And before you know it, he’s got a bunch of good old boys out there trying to stomp fire. And goddammit, if it doesn’t detain him for a real long time. And the only thing that her soon-to-be fiance has to do is, “Come on.”

Matt (03:03:28):

Because they’re doing this to get her nephew and her sister-in-law out, but then she’s drawn to her bedroom and is like, “Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. My dad, my dad’s my host. My dad was the ghost in my shelf. And yes, the wristwatch. Oh my God. The second hand is tapping Morse code at me. This means something.” And then she goes downstairs, she’s like, “My dad is alive. He’s my ghost.” And she hugs her brother and her brother’s like, “What the fuck is going on, man?” I

Laci (03:03:51):

Guess I won’t follow y’all to the fucking NASA and beat your ass.

Matt (03:03:55):

And then the Tesseract closed and McConaughey’s just floating in space and then gets picked up and wakes up in a space station there.

Laci (03:04:02):

And right with a doctor robot.

Matt (03:04:05):

With a doctor. And he’s like, “Mr. Cooper, well done. Glad to have you. The year is now 2,200 or whatever. And you’re on the Cooper Space Station.” He’s like, “Nah, she didn’t name it after.” No.

Laci (03:04:18):

We didn’t name it after you.

Matt (03:04:20):

We named it after your daughter who has the very normal name of Murphy Cooper. And you’re like, “Oh, is she alive?” It’s

Laci (03:04:26):

Actually Murphy Lee Cooper.

Matt (03:04:29):

Is she alive? Yes. That’s the only person I want to know about.

Laci (03:04:34):

Yeah. He’s

Matt (03:04:35):

The only

Laci (03:04:36):

One you made a promise to. He didn’t make a promise to the boy?

Matt (03:04:39):

Is President Obama alive?

Laci (03:04:40):

Okay.

Matt (03:04:42):

And she’s on her way. She’s in cryo sleep. She’s coming from another space station and she’s excited to see you. And now we get a look at this space station and it’s a big centrifuge or whatever, and people are – But it’s

Laci (03:04:55):

Multiple. It’s nesting centrifuges is how they figured it out. How do we put gravity everywhere? Well, we make a weird bookshelf thing like he was in, where there’s little pockets of gravity all over the place. They probably have to travel between the gravity pockets.

Matt (03:05:13):

Yeah. And kids are playing baseball and we’re just recreating the old world because that’s all we know how to do. Beaver’s building a dam. There’s got to build a dam, got to play baseball. Got to

Laci (03:05:24):

Make

Matt (03:05:25):

A damn. Got to make a documentary, got to rebuild the farmhouse.

Laci (03:05:28):

That’s interesting though though, because the baseball is an American pastime. They don’t use soccer. They don’t use anything that goes across continents. It’s just us. It’s not cricket.

Matt (03:05:36):

It’s us in Japan. Yeah.

Laci (03:05:38):

Yeah.

Matt (03:05:39):

And the Dominican Republic.

Laci (03:05:41):

But it’s called the American pastime. No, you’re right. I mean, there’s a very colonialism bent to this movie.

Matt (03:05:50):

Yeah, especially because America’s way behind in space stuff now. Yes.

Laci (03:05:53):

Yes. There’s no reason why there wouldn’t be Japanese, Chinese –

Matt (03:05:57):

The Chinese and Russian- Russian help. Yeah. Space program’s much better right now than us.

Laci (03:06:01):

I mean, I guess we’re supposed to deduce from the food wars that we’ve severed all ties and it’s every fucking nation for themselves. Sure.

Matt (03:06:07):

I think it’s an aesthetic choice. He wants to evoke this – Nostalgia. Yeah. This dust bowl. Dust bowl, yes. 1930s Americana.

Laci (03:06:14):

And that we keep reliving it. We are doomed or blessed to keep reliving the past. All we can do is create what we know.

Matt (03:06:21):

They’ve perfectly recreated his old house, but it’s also a museum because it has screens playing footage of Talking Heads. The Talking Heads that we saw at the beginning of the movie, and he’s a little creeped out by this, but like, yeah, okay. And they’re like, “Hey, and we found your busted robot. You want to fix it?” He’s like, “Hell yeah.” Well,

Laci (03:06:36):

He just kind of understands it all in a moment. This isn’t my planet. It’s gone on without me. It’s the way that Christopher Nolan would feel when he’d come back to Chicago and then back to Hempershire or whatever. It’s just like, I could spend time here and catch up, but this is not. I’m an alien. I could sit here and I could be this oddity and you all are going to look at me and I could be this guy out of time. Or I could fucking go back to space and find that one woman that’s still in my time.

Matt (03:07:11):

And do you think, as I do, will you agree with me that this is also Nolan being a little unhappy with the movie industry and feeling like, why are we stuck just regurgitating all the same old shit we’ve always, the same stories we’ve always regurgitated? And they’re letting me push things forward, but no one else?

Laci (03:07:31):

I still don’t know where you’re taking that from. You seem very sure that he wishes there were more people doing what he’s doing. And I don’t have any evidence that he isn’t totally pumped. It’s just him. You’ve read more than me, but.

Matt (03:07:48):

I think he said things like – Well, that would

Laci (03:07:50):

Be why then.

Matt (03:07:51):

I know other filmmakers who are just as talented.

Laci (03:07:56):

I won’t work with them, but I know them.

Matt (03:07:59):

Only one director on a movie.

Laci (03:08:01):

I’m sure they’d like to do the lights or some gripping or I don’t

Matt (03:08:06):

Know. So his daughter comes, it’s Ellen Burston.

Laci (03:08:09):

Or like he comes to his daughter. But yeah, she’s surrounded by family. She’s had a full life. She’s wanted to do this one moment, find out these last few things. It’s a very touching scene, but it’s so practical. She’s had a lot of time and she knows exactly what her dad should be doing. And in fact, if he was the one that passed all this information down through all these decades, then he does need to still go on. He’s not going to do all that future shit here on this. He needs to go to the next stop, whatever it is, because someone has been telling him what to do this entire time, and it’s probably him. Because nobody tells him what to do except for him.

Matt (03:08:48):

I was your ghost. I know. People thought I was coming up with it all on my own, but no.

Laci (03:08:54):

But you’re like a huge fucking big deal scientist, and this is the thing people decided was stupid. Oh, okay. Okay. Dr. Cooper who saved

Matt (03:09:02):

The marriag Was she telling them? No, my dad’s communicating with my wristwatch. It’s my wristwatch. And they’re like, yeah, okay. I bet it is.

Laci (03:09:10):

But it worked,

Matt (03:09:11):

Didn’t it? Lady gets results. That’s

Laci (03:09:13):

Right. Who cares if it’s a psychic? She found the dead body.

Matt (03:09:17):

No parents should have to watch their child die. I have my kids here with me now. Amelia Brand is out there.

Laci (03:09:23):

She even knew she had to hit him with a nostalgia, Barry, a little moment for him because he’s only capable of being a Hallmark dad. These little moments, these little gestures, but it’s not really where his heart. It’s not what he wants to do. No parent should have to watch their child die. She knew she had to send him

Matt (03:09:40):

Off. It

Laci (03:09:41):

Might as well have been a champagne bottle in her hand and she just breaks it

Matt (03:09:44):

Over him. As she’s saying this, he closes his eyes. He knows what she’s saying is true. And this is the moment I lived my entire life for, and it’s going to be over in about two minutes.

Laci (03:09:53):

Right. Because you built this up in your head, just like Leo does in his mind prison. This was the big deal to you. And yeah, it was a big deal to her too, but she’s lived a long, full, interesting, loving, fulfilling life and you had barely anything to do with it. You are a ghost.

Matt (03:10:12):

And I already knew you did keep your promise. You communicated via the watch and the books. Yeah. I mean, you

Laci (03:10:17):

Could have also typed, I love you, but that’s fine. That’s fine.

Matt (03:10:22):

So he goes and steals a spaceship and starts flying off to Amelia’s planet, and we end the movie with her on her planet. And Anne Hathaway has put up a monument to her dead boyfriend, Wolf Edmonds. She’s got her Tars robot built in their new camp, and then she dramatically takes off her space helmet and takes the first breath. Oh my God, I can breathe the air here. This is our new actual home, and that’s the end of the movie.

Laci (03:10:47):

And him alone. It is a great ending.

Matt (03:11:06):

Yeah, I love this movie. Now watching it again probably is my favorite Nolan movie. It’s between this and Oppenheimer, but this is the sentimental favorite five stars. With a heart, I love this movie. Check out Interstellar.

Laci (03:11:17):

Yeah. If you haven’t, tell a friend.

Matt (03:11:19):

Have you seen Interstellar?

Laci (03:11:20):

Tell a friend from the past and they’ll tell one in the future.

Matt (03:11:23):

But how are you going to do that? It’s got to be a way. Tap,

Laci (03:11:26):

Tap, tap a roo.

Matt (03:11:28):

You take tap here. Take out

Laci (03:11:30):

Your

Matt (03:11:30):

Phone.

Laci (03:11:31):

You say it like that. You ask take a tap

Matt (03:11:33):

Or what? That’s not how you ask. Do you tap here?

Laci (03:11:36):

No, I just take my phone. I just start hitting things and they’re like, “You want to tap them?” Yep. That’s what I do.

Matt (03:11:41):

That is what I do too.

Laci (03:11:42):

Start hitting equipment. And they’re like, “No, that’s a person.

Matt (03:11:47):

No.” In fast food restaurants now, I don’t know if they accept it, but I just hold out my phone.

Laci (03:11:53):

Without looking at them, Matt.

Matt (03:11:54):

No, I look the best I can. Tap and tapa. What’s coming up next?

Laci (03:12:05):

Fucking Tenet.

Matt (03:12:06):

Tenet.

Laci (03:12:06):

I have not been looking forward to this one. I remember feeling very, very lost with this movie and not having a lot to stick to. And I’m hoping I’m misremembering because I do enjoy Edward.

Matt (03:12:17):

Edward’s all over this movie.

Laci (03:12:19):

Is there any hot in the movie? That’s what I felt. That’s what I remember being missing is hot.

Matt (03:12:26):

There’s some hot between Elizabeth DeBecky and her kid. I don’t

Laci (03:12:29):

Want that kind of heart.

Matt (03:12:31):

Yeah. Okay. There’s hot between – Oh, I’m

Laci (03:12:34):

Not going to lie.

Matt (03:12:35):

John David Washington and Edward.

Laci (03:12:37):

You said John David Washington’s not good at this role.

Matt (03:12:40):

He’s fine. He’s fine. He’s next to the fucking charisma. Oh, black hole.

Laci (03:12:46):

The

Matt (03:12:46):

Opposite of a black hole. No,

Laci (03:12:48):

He sucks it all in. It’s him.

Matt (03:12:49):

Okay. Of Robert Patton just being as charming as can be.

Laci (03:12:53):

That man can turn it on.

Matt (03:12:55):

And that’s where the hot is, I think.

Laci (03:12:57):

And the whole lot

Matt (03:12:57):

Of it. Tenet next week. Subscribe to 1-Week Rental on Patreon for episodes about Dunkirk Insomnia, Spider-Man brand new day. Subscribe to us on Letterboxd Matt Stokes nine in Load, Baring Laci. Social media, Rural Route Nine. That’s all we got for you folks. See you out there in the stars.

Laci (03:13:12):

Goodbye. You day. I love you. Bye.